Auto Care ON AIR

Why Thinking Like A Broadcaster Beats Making More Content

• Auto Care Association • Season 1 • Episode 77

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The media landscape is shifting fast, and the smartest brands aren’t just buying placements, they’re becoming broadcasters. We sit down with Simon Shelley, former BBC Studios leader and advisor to media and tech companies, to unpack how audience habits, platform formats, and funding models are changing what effective brand storytelling looks like. From MSNBC’s live events to Mattel launching a full-fledged studio, the writing is on the wall: the path to attention runs through programming, not sporadic posts.

Simon shares a practical, viewer-first framework forged inside newsrooms and studios: lead with a strong character, ground the viewer in a clear setting, and take them on a real journey with obstacles and payoff. We explore why emotional connection is a prerequisite for recall, how “solutions-focused storytelling” avoids puff pieces through transparency and evidence, and where long-form content on YouTube can outperform legacy ad buys. For the automotive aftermarket, we connect this to right to repair—showing policymakers the stakes through human stories that resonate beyond a fact sheet.

We also dive into the role of AI. Generative tools can speed workflow, but audiences still detect when a voice lacks human texture. That’s where Natter comes in: thousands of simultaneous one-on-one conversations, instantly synthesized into themes, actions, and verbatim quotes. It’s a new way to capture collective wisdom from members, employees, and customers—fuel for content that feels true, useful, and scalable. As streamers tighten budgets, brand studios have a rare chance to make programming that genuinely entertains while advancing core values. Start with the viewer, measure what moves them, and build a catalog worth returning to.

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To learn more about the Auto Care Association visit autocare.org.

To learn more about our show and suggest future topics and guests, visit autocare.org/podcast


Stacey Miller:

Welcome to AutoCare on Air, a candid podcast for Curious Industry. I'm Stacy Miller, Vice President of Communications at the Auto Care Association, and this is Traction Control, where we chat about recent news from the global to the local level and what it may mean to the industry featuring guests on the front lines. Let's roll. Welcome back to another episode of Traction Control. I'm Stacy Miller. And today I wanted to talk about a few really intriguing headlines that I think are signaling a pivot for brands. Now, what do I mean about that? I think that a lot of us are focused about broadcasting our messages to the masses, meaning we want to get our messages to as many people as possible. We're trying to extend our reach and influence. But what if I told you that brands actually need to become the media? It's a really interesting concept, but check out some of these headlines. MSNBC is doubling down on their live event strategy and broadcasting those, trying to deepen audience engagement and build programs that feels more experimental or experiential. Jimmy Fallon has a new on-brand competition that focuses on branding, TV, and audience creativity to help consumer companies share some of their branding challenges and solve them. And Mattel, the popular toy maker, is also merging its film and TV units to create Mattel Studios. So now, more than just toys, but it's a product brand acting like an entertainment broadcaster. So all of those fun brands that you know, like Barbie and Hot Wheels and Masters of the Universe, all have these new brand storytelling and TV broadcast elements. So there's definitely some context and trends that are supporting the shift, right? We're seeing brands building their own newsrooms, case in point, and becoming the media, pivoting from brands as publishers to brands as broadcasters, which is what we're going to talk about today. And things like broadcast and e-commerce are now merging. Think about TikTok shop, TikTok shop. Think about shoppable TV, interactive content. I turned on my TV the other day, the Roku TV, and during the commercial, I got a QR code to scan if I wanted to buy the tequila that was choked that was being displayed on the screen. Wow. So lots of mobile first, vertical video, interactive storytelling is becoming more and more important for brands. And all of this second screen engagement that consumers are engaging in is becoming important as well. So lots of times we're not actively focused on what we're watching. We're multitasking and we're on those mobile devices. All things that brands need to consider as they work on evolving their brand strategies, particularly in the automotive aftermarket. So all of this to say it's an exciting time to be a brand and control the narrative a bit more and tell your story in a way that resonates with your audience. So my guest today, which I'm very excited about, is a master at brand broadcasting, and he's a trusted advisor on content and growth to media and technology companies. His name is Simon Shelley, and he crafts strategies that realize the opportunities of ever-changing viewing habits and data-driven innovations. Simon is currently advising NADAR, which harnesses the collective wisdom of thousands of people instantly. We're going to talk about what he does for Natter in just a bit. So welcome, Simon.

Simon Shelley:

Great to be here.

Stacey Miller:

Such a great guest today. I'm really excited. We met by fate when you started doing consulting for Natter. Tell me a little bit about what you're doing now and what that platform is.

Simon Shelley:

Well, uh going back a step, uh, thanks for your your introduction. Um I've been involved in media content brands uh for decades. It makes me sound really old.

Stacey Miller:

Not at all.

Simon Shelley:

Um shouldn't tell you, I shouldn't date myself. Um I set up a division at uh BBC Studios when I was global vice president to uh create programs, uh stories about the issues shaping society, about many different industries and disciplines for BBC.com audiences around the world. There's a half a billion uh BBC viewers, a hundred million are online, and we work with brands to tell those stories. And we can come back to that in a minute. But one of the things that that fascinated me was about how we get to know audiences better. Uh an organization that I'm uh advising at the moment, NATA, puts thousands of people or hundreds into simultaneous one-on-one conversations about a particular topic or a theme, and then it summarizes the trends of those discussions instantly. And it's being used by uh big corporates mainly to give underrepresented employees a voice, Accenture, Deloitte, and others. Uh, but actually there's a fascination with how it could help membership bodies, and I think that's where fate brought us together, but also how it might help brands understand stakeholders, consumers, customers better as well.

Stacey Miller:

I love your background in storytelling and from BBC to I think ITV as well. Let's dig a little bit deeper into that because how did you come to be a broadcaster and what got you excited about some of those roles? Because you did that for quite a number of years, right?

Simon Shelley:

Yes, I did. Cool. What what what was the journey? Uh I studied marketing. I got a master's i i in marketing and and so I suppose uh cut my teeth in understanding those those those basics of of of marketing. But of course it's it's not a very useful uh degree in some respects because marketing changes and has changed during the last few years to be unrecognizable from the the syllabus that that I learned. Um but that that was where I I realised that I was fascinated by by the media, I was fascinated by storytelling. I I probably didn't realise back then that storytelling was was central to it all, but marketing is is is quite simply that. And it would always it would give me the ick to use a Love Island term, uh that uh when when there was corporate speak and and so I I gradually got into making films. Uh and that's where I I started to to go to ITN who makes national news uh in Britain and wrote a business plan to think about programs that we could create about particular issues that that where we could bring brands in uh as well. And at that point, people just couldn't understand that a brand could tell a story that would be of value to viewers without having to give exceptional consideration to their message that it was an advert. And I use that term, that that phrase because I it's I think that's the connotations that people get from it. But gradually that that we we we got from there to a point where where brands started to really engage in storytelling in in in audiences and then took that on to the BBC and it has absolutely flourished at the same time as as media and marketing developing and changing and the sentiments of marketing uh professionals also uh changing in terms of that what they want to put across to audiences.

Stacey Miller:

I love what you said about how marketing is different than the textbooks we saw in college. And I think a lot of people, when they think about marketing, they think about advertising, like you said, adverts. And um, to be a storyteller, I think you have to take yourself into a really different kind of mindset. You have to put yourself kind of into the shoes of your audience in order to tell that story and create things that resonate, right? And to a degree, marketing is also a lot of psychology. It's about tapping into human feelings, into human beliefs and and all of those things, right? I assume that was a big part of your brand storytelling.

Simon Shelley:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, actually, going back a step, you you mentioned in the intro brands as broadcasters, and and that's absolutely right. But uh a lot of what needs to happen is brands thinking like broadcasters. Uh brands are broadcasters by virtue of the changes in marketing you you mentioned. So all of a sudden marketing media was democratized. Uh you know, we we could we could take a video now, we are taking a video now, and you could post it to the whole world. Yeah. They're completely democratized in terms of platforms and be able to reach millions of people. YouTube is bigger than Disney at the moment. I know that's on revenue, but it gives you a sense of the scale of that that platform. So the opportunity for brands to be broadcast is is there. But there's a problem, which is that in in doing so, brands are just making more and more and more content. And they're not really thinking about uh the creation of it in terms of what value it's providing and the curation of it, where it's going and how it and there's a consistency or a strategy to it. So it's it's what I call content landfill. It's just content for the the sake of it. So there's a there's a problem there in the sense that the content isn't cutting through. There's another problem as well, uh which is that brands can be broadcasters, we just established that. But there's a feeling from a lot of brands that is that they need to have a voice. And and maybe this is brands in the autocare market who maybe haven't ever had to think about speaking to people, to audiences, to stakeholders beyond the people that they do business with. But all of a sudden, whether that's a personal thing from business owners, or whether that's what society demands, or whether that's what consumers demand in terms of the provenance of their products or how that company is treating their staff or the the the planet or or society, there needs to be a voice on on these issues. Uh and and that is a good thing by by and large, it's great. But that also has pitfalls. Uh and and done poorly, that can have a an adverse effect. I mean, I I I if if if if I count a couple of examples. I mean, I I was amongst many household name brands, I've worked with um some massive B2B brands. There was a company called ResMed that that make that that helps with uh sleep apnea and respiratory conditions for people in sleep. And for years and years and years, it was just prescribed globally by physicians, by doctors, by healthcare. They don't need to do anything as such but ensure that doctors are prescribing this. But all of a sudden they realise that they're involved in people sleeping properly in terms of respiratory conditions, that's air quality and overall wellness and health, and realise they wanted to have a voice on that. So you've got a multi-billion dollar company that all of a sudden has the means to tell stories. How do they go about that? But then you've got other household name brands getting it wrong. Uh the example of wading into social issues when you may not want to is I remember uh Black Lives Matter and Pepsi making an advert, Kim Kardashian.

Stacey Miller:

That's a big one.

Simon Shelley:

Uh of course, you know, yeah, o over here, which exploited social unrest. You know, of course she was set in a with police officers in at a protest and then they all break to have a Pepsi. Which got it completely wrong, but it came from a place of wanting to be involved in and have a voice on those issues.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah. So you were talking about the content landfill, and I really appreciate that because I think when people think content, you hear this phrase content is king, and to a lot of brands that means, oh, that means I need to produce more content. But that content may not all be quality content. And then it goes into the landfill because we have really short attention spans, it's becoming even harder to break through the noise. You know, when you were working with some of these brands creating these stories, I'm sure they came to you with some ideas and you had to kind of bite your tongue and say, okay, this might not be the best way to tell this. How did you kind of coach brands or how did you help them find what that story was for someone who was starting from scratch and didn't really understand that this isn't an advertisement, this isn't PR, this is who you are.

Simon Shelley:

Well, this comes to that central idea of think like a broadcaster. Um thinking like a broadcaster is the idea is that if you if you take a BBC or an Apple or a Disney, you know, what what do they consider when they're making their content? Uh and yes, they're thinking about characters and they're thinking about uh shining a new light on an issue and they're thinking about really getting to know their audiences and what happens after the the audience uh views something and thinking about high quality, and we can dig into all all of those things. But uh ultimately there's there's one central idea, which is that rather than thinking of people as customers, stakeholders or shareholders, think of everyone as a viewer first. Get them to feel something, get them to have some kind of emotional connection. And when I say that emotional connection doesn't need to be sadness, tears, cry. It can be it can be joy, it can be laughter. Something that makes them feel something, get them to like the content first, and the rest will follow. And it really is as simple as that, and it's amazing how still brands want to give exceptional consideration uh to their to their message and and there's science behind it. It's not and it's not rocket science. I mean, uh our brains are hardwired to link the way we feel to the information that we're being given. So if we do uh feel something, then what we're being told is likely to be remembered.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah, that's really true. It makes me think about Do you watch the Super Bowl ever? Of course. Do you think they're like the ads used to be funny and now they're not funny, and I don't feel anything, and I don't remember those brands anymore.

Simon Shelley:

Yeah.

Stacey Miller:

Right?

Simon Shelley:

It's it's I think it's difficult to be funny. Yeah. Actually, it's a really hard thing to do for brands, but but some are getting it so right. There's there's some brilliant examples.

Stacey Miller:

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's weird to think about a time where I could remember a Cheetos commercial, and like, what is a Cheeto to me? I don't know. It's some little orange puffy thing that you eat that's really bad for you. But whatever story they told with their cheetah and they created this funny thing, it it was more memorable for me, right? And I remember that even now, or a Doritos commercial. But it's like, what what do Doritos and Cheetos have to do with the auto care industry and storytelling? It's that they crafted something that was memorable that broke through the noise. So how do we do something similar?

Simon Shelley:

Well, the the the thing about the Super Bowl uh ad break is that arguably it's that is dare I say it, older fashioned marketing. I mean, of course, if you're a brand and you and you you're you're on the Super Bowl airbreak, phenomenal. You know you get a a a great exposure there. But it it is limiting. It limiting in the sense that you've got a certain amount of time, you've got a certain uh demographic that's that's watching, and and it needs to be produced in a certain way. Uh if you go onto platforms uh like YouTube, like uh uh um uh I was gonna say X but Instagram or or Meta or anything else that you want to use, there's the opportunity to do different things, to to uh think about the the the ver the format, the vertical storytelling, but the ongoing storytelling as well. So not just one piece, but but consecutive pieces. There's so many different ways that you can be creative on those platforms. I I as I said, I you know someone offered me a super bar lab break, then you're not turning it down to the brand. But but but that might be an argument to say that those brands that are really driving laughs aren't necessarily doing it there. They're doing it elsewhere. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Stacey Miller:

No kidding. And I mean, speaking of YouTube, the way that this platform has proliferated content, the way it consumes content and consumers consume the content on that platform. I mean, we're getting more reach on YouTube for some brands than you would have if you had done some sort of in-stream display or TV advertising or media buy. And like you said, it's it's so democratized. We're gonna post this on YouTube later. Yeah. And you know, one of our latest podcasts has over 60,000 views, and we didn't expect that. And like we, you know, you there was a once upon a time you would have to pay for that, and that wouldn't have been cheap. So, and here we are in this room doing it ourselves.

Simon Shelley:

And actually, 60,000 views, it's always surprising when I hear the number of views that are estimated for TV programs. Big broadcasters. And you expect for whatever reason, you're expecting millions, but actually the the the number of views are in the thousands, and you're thinking, wow, that's the things the tables have shifted.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah. And the way the way that ideas spread, I think, thanks to social media. This is something that that really fascinates me. And I'd love your take on this because I know you've worked across a bunch of different platforms, but you know, ever since the advent of social media, we've seen nothing but growth in the sharing of ideas and stories and you know, stories that you may not have heard before that may not have ever made it to the light of day on a TV program or a newspaper or whatever those traditional forms of media are. So in working with brands, you know, some of your top tips or things that you learned or gleaned from the social media proliferation of content and how to tell that story across social media. It's changing every day. So this might be a tough one.

Simon Shelley:

Oh, I mean it it is, but I think the coming back to storytelling, the tenets of storytelling hold fast. You know, we we it's an innate desire for us to be told stories. It's you know, even from when we you know we sat around the campfire as cavemen and women or uh that's that's what we that's what we want. And I know a lot of the time people say, give just give me the facts, but we need to be taken on that that journey. So um I I did a uh a study that I set up at a BBC, which was called What Keeps Viewers Glued? And what we wanted to measure was the highest performing pieces of content on social media. And we studied nearly 500 uh pieces of content over a period of time. What we were looking for was uh viewer duration. So those where where viewers watched until the end, uh and we we looked at the the correlating trends of of the top performing pieces. Uh and it and it's nothing surprising, that's the thing. Really? But there were three main things that came through, and you'll know everyone knows what they are. The first one is strong uh characters. Who's the protagonist? Who's carrying the the story? And uh that that person if if they have got some passion, they've got some emotion, they've got some knowledge, I call that I I call that gravitas. Uh and and and it could be anyone, it doesn't have to be a CEO, it could be anyone, as long as they've got some kind of passion, emotion, or or or knowledge, then you might associate yourself with that person and all of a sudden you're locked into that that story. And it's amazing how important it is to have a strong, strong character and think about who your central character is. Coming back to think like a broadcaster, that's what you know when when Netflix uh uh Disney are sat in a i in a room, they're thinking about a new show, they they're thinking about uh main character energy. Who's the lead character that's gonna come come through? Um then the the the the second thing is is uh scene setting. That's what we found is that when you take the time to put someone in a location, a place, yeah, and of course when the opportunity arises you want uh amazing vistas and and beautiful sunrises and sunsets, but it doesn't have to be that. It just yeah, even if it's in an office environment, you'll there's techniques like actuality of sound. Not everything has to start with a corporate music soundtrack. Just have some space and sound to to to to ground people in that in that place. Even put the big text on screen saying where you are, but s it it immediately puts the person in in that uh that location. And and that seems to work uh incredibly well. And then the final thing was is taking viewers on a on a journey. Uh again, it sounds so uh obvious, but yeah, sometimes the journey is more important than the destination. Uh it's the it's the challenges, it's the pitfalls, and and we can talk about solutions-focused uh storytelling in a moment because that is a uh an issue. But people like to to feel as though there's there's that roller coaster uh ride, even if they know what the the ending is is going to be. I mean, I I was talking to you about cricket before you say uh Trinidad and there's a beautiful program in the UK at the moment with a very famous cricketer Freddie Flintoff, and he gets a a bunch of disadvantaged kids together who've never had the opportunity to play the sport and they come together and they learn and they they bond and you know what the outcome is gonna be, isn't that? I mean obviously that you know what the ending's gonna be, everyone's gonna be uh but the the journey getting there is so rewarding. Yeah. So I I think it's just and and I don't I don't think those things are just just having that mindset, thinking about those things, applying them to what you're going to make. And even if you've got a even if it's a a a fairly routine story, but just thinking about how you might be a little bit more open to the challenges, to create that jeopardy that might give you that that journey. Just thinking about just a breath at the start to just think about where that story's being told and just think about who that main person is. We want to know more about the world around that main person.

Stacey Miller:

That's really inspiring. What I feel like you're telling me right now is that I should think like a movie producer in everything that I do because I'm like, all right, I know who the I know who the villain is right now, I know who the hero is right now, we know how we want the story to end. Okay, now how do we tell that in a way to people that gets them active and engaged? Like we do advocacy here at Autocare, right? Telling the story of right to repair is always it's a challenge, right? We have to explain to people, to lawmakers why it's important, why they should care. And it's really difficult for them to read a fact sheet and digest it and really understand the issue. But if we tell the story of the hero who's the mom who's taking her kid to school, and the villain who is the automaker who's locking her out of the car because she can't get the data to fix her car, maybe it's something a little different. You can humanize it.

Simon Shelley:

I mean, when I think of Right to Repair, and this is just off the cuff, I think of my grandma who's 97 and she still drives.

Stacey Miller:

What?

Simon Shelley:

And she drives a Honda um jazz, and uh she's had it since early 2000s, and she feels really comfortable in that car, and she she it went something went wrong with it, and we had to work really hard to get the parts because if it was a new car, I don't I think she would have lost her confidence and not continue driving. And then that's her that's kind of her mobility, her uh freedom, her independence gone. So I I I I just think of that as a off-the-cuff story, but humanizing it and it starts to make sense to it's a great story.

Stacey Miller:

You said very little there, but I could picture your 97-year-old grandma. I hope I got this right for the auto industry, and I'm not embarrassing myself, but I think a Honda jazz over there is a Honda fit here. So data nerds um check me on that. I hope so. If not, I'm probably fired. Yeah. Um break off. And I get and I get that. It I understand that. Um so that's a way to be off the cuff, Simon. Like, this is why. You're here. Yeah. So you were talking about um solution-based storytelling. Yeah. So there's an answer, there's a solution, like you're solving a problem for someone. So you're presenting an issue, and that's also part of the storytelling, right?

Simon Shelley:

Yeah. Yeah. I I So where this comes from is that I uh used to work alongside the the newsrooms, um, ITM, which is all the channels in the UK, and and and BBC, and there was a an issue with telling positive news. We all we I don't know, as humans, we don't seem to be as attuned to positive news as as as we like the doom and doom and gloom. Yeah. So it was a real drive to tell better stories, but it's a it's difficult because you want to tell a good story about something, it just feels like a puff piece, particularly coming from a brand. And there's so many good things to say, but if you don't frame it in the right way, it people it just doesn't feel believable or authentic. So we started to research ways to to do this. And solutions-focused storytelling was just it's just a a formula in the sense of uh providing the context, um, providing the challenges, being open about the challenges. This is the a thing that a lot of people need to get beyond, I suppose, when it comes to a brand that's starting to tell their story to to the world. You know, maybe if you're a brand, you don't want to say that anything might have been difficult or challenging. You know, everything's fantastic as a brand, but actually more and more, and I think research suggests that particularly younger generations are more okay with uh transparency. Which I'm I'm getting more Love Island uh they talk about radical transparency on the phone. Yeah, what's the concept?

Stacey Miller:

It's and they're talking about it on Love Island.

Simon Shelley:

Yeah, they are radical transparency. Oh my god. Give me that how it is. Give me a break. You can't say that how it is. And and and it's and it's people people that appeals to people, that openness. Um so that's important in there. And then then there's of course evidence. So you you outline the solution, but is there evidence? And I think the thing that that we found interestingly that that really attracts viewers is uh scalability. You know, if you've got a good idea, that's one thing. If it can be scaled and it can help a lot of people, you know, if if you know the right-to-repair story um again, off the cuff. I mean, it's all very well, you know, in certain areas of the of the industry, but you just imagine right across the industry how that how that can support so many people. Uh and imagine it in other industries as well. It's a it's that scalability is a powerful thing, along with hopes for the future is another thing that just seems to land with audiences.

Stacey Miller:

Absolutely. And I mean that's um it's kind of a classic concept, what you just described, the solution-focused storytelling, because I think its origins were probably in advertising as it was classically taught to us, right? Like you present a problem and then there's a solution and then there's a call to action. That's like the most basic structure for every ad that you see on the internet. But what this does is this puts a layer on top of it with more transparency, more storytelling to make it more relatable and make it more exciting to people to understand and listen to.

Simon Shelley:

Exactly. And look, we started saying that marketing's changed, but maybe it hasn't. Maybe, maybe all of those ideas are just evolving and it's just leaning into them more. Like you say, that structure's it's nothing new, it's existed. But well, two things, accentuating elements of it, but but secondly, not forgetting it is because in in our rush to make content and get it out there, that's that's where the mistakes are made, and we just forget actually to tell a proper story and take our time.

Stacey Miller:

Keep the audience in mind. I think that's a really that's a really good tip. You're right. Because we have to work really fast, we have to be really agile. All of the brands listening to this podcast are running businesses, so marketing may not be top of mind. So when someone says, We need to do a marketing campaign for such and such part, get it out the door, okay. Cobble it together, get it out the door. But we don't stop and take the time to think about the audience and what are they thinking, what are they feeling, how could we make this more effective? So I think that's Put the viewer first.

Simon Shelley:

Just think of the viewer. Put yourself in the mindset of Disney and think, right, who's the character? What what what happens after someone's uh watched this? What do we want people to think, feel and do? Uh it must be high quality as well. It it's a representation of your of your brand. Actually, Disney's a great example, you know. We they're making amazing shows that that aren't animations or Mickey Mouse, but they've still got that Disney sparkle. You've got to think about the consistency. Okay, Disney's budget, so vastly different. But as I said, it's not about it's a it's it it's it's just it's how if you the the pl the starting point is the mindset.

Stacey Miller:

I really appreciate that. And the transparency fact about it too. I think our minds as j as the generations changed have evolved, and the type of media that we consume is different, and yes, we are we're in a lot of doom and gloom right now. And I think there was a time where maybe we weren't so into that and we wanted the happy stories, and now we're really into the doom and gloom, and it's time for those happy stories again. Like, do you notice the news programs now? There's like a good news of the week type segment, and they're doing those again. And I thought those were dead, but apparently people really need some good news lately because we're very transparent about what's going on in the world. There's a lot of noise, there's a lot of other priorities. So we got to bring something good and again something interesting to catch people's attention. That's not that doom and gloom that's happening right now.

Simon Shelley:

Yes. And in other news, that's what we used to call it. What did you call it? In uh and in other news.

Stacey Miller:

In other news, that's the perfect transition.

Simon Shelley:

That is the transition to a fluffy cat that can uh skateboard. Or something like that. Yeah. That can that can do that. And and and yeah, people I think people yearn for that. There's I think there's a uh people want solutions. They do want them. That's the thing. It's just they just need to be couched in the right way. And it comes back to that tenant of we just gotta set the scene, we've gotta make people feel something, and then we can talk to them about the solution. But people are yearning for that desperate for it.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah. How do you feel about today's day and age of all this new technology? Because attention spans are dwindling, messages are continuing to come out faster than ever before. And now we have ways to create messages even faster than ever before. Hello, AI. It's a topic probably on every single episode. How are you navigating storytelling in this age of information? Which I don't I don't have a fancy term to call it, but it needs like it needs a term. It's just insane the amount of information we're supposed to process and synthesize and understand on a day-to-day basis.

Simon Shelley:

They're eight seconds with seven seconds. But but then I but then I don't really believe that because YouTube uh duration of viewing figures is is is around six minutes, the average. So actually it's it's becoming a longer form on YouTube. So I I don't know what to make of all of that. In terms of I suppose AI, um it it's it's interesting. I we did a NATA actually with the uh PR association in the UK. And quite a few things that came out of that was that uh PR and sorry, AI can show up a lack of imagination in PR. So so actually for some reason we we have an innate ability still, just uh not in all cases to spot AI uh and know that that's there's something wrong with it. And maybe there's a couple of things there. One is that AI is everything that's gone before, so how do you create something new? That's our imaginations. But there's also something about human messiness that is that transparency, that em that emotion, that that that something that's funny is inherently a little bit messy a lot of the time, and that comes from human intelligence rather than artificial intelligence, maybe just still.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah.

Simon Shelley:

Probably not for much longer.

Stacey Miller:

God, I hope not. The day that I'm not able to tell, you know, something AI generated versus human-generated is gonna be the day that I just I give up because it's getting so close now, but I can't, you know, I I was talking about this on another podcast. I can read people's social media posts and I can tell when that was generated by AI. You can tell. Like, I know that's not your voice. Yes. I know you didn't put that emoji there. I know that's not your punctuation because I've known you for X amount of years. Yeah. So, you know, at what point is it too much? You know, it's not, it doesn't have all that human creativity. Um, but you know, it's creating, again, more of this mass information, this deluge of this deluge of information that's making it harder and harder for people to pay attention.

Simon Shelley:

But but but I will say that AI, that's generative AI, and there's a lot of AI tools that can really support the creation of content in terms of you know administrative tasks, whether it's transcripts or whether that's helping frame uh or or if you're starting with a blank sheet of paper. And actually not just AI, but if you think of other technology, and we've talked about this before, the cost of really great equipment coming down. And I suppose that that lends itself to to to brands that maybe are starting out storytelling, you know, the the the again it's democratizing it.

Stacey Miller:

Exactly. Well, that's a perfect segue into learning more about Natter and what you're doing there, because that's a really cool AI tool that I actually got to see in action today live. I've participated in my very first NATO. I was very impressed, by the way. So tell me a little bit about how that tool and you came together and how you're kind of bringing some of your storytelling prowess to NATO and NATO.

Simon Shelley:

Sure, sure. Well, amongst um uh some projects I I I'm advising NATA. As I mentioned before, NATTA puts thousands of people into simultaneous one-on-one conversations and it summarizes the trends of those discussions instantly. And it's it's been really successful with uh large corporates, but there's a sense that it can be uh widened to really capture the voice of anyone. And and it's uh what's amazing about this actually, and coming back into the human element uh versus AI, as it were, uh is that it's one-on-one conversations. So uh firstly, everyone uh uh has an input uh and these are running simultaneously. Uh everyone has an input which contributes to the collective output. So it's a synthesis of all of the millions of words that have been spoken into these trends and themes, and it's instantaneous. And it's wonderful that everyone can input. So that's there's the inclusivity piece. When two people get together, what I've seen is that there can be a bit of moaning and pointing out problems first, but people tend to be quite constructive when they're bouncing off each other. So you just get these wonderful ideas that are generated from these human interactions. And the fact that it's it's so accessible, so you know, the the idea of bringing together people in focus groups um and flying people in and sitting them down and and you've got ten people in a room and you can do this with hundreds of people instantly and and at scale is uh is amazing. So so I I think for membership bodies uh autocare, I think this this could be really, really interesting to gather uh insights on particular themes that are impacting the industry. Uh, but it could go further as well for organizations who j who want to uh gather, as I said, customers, stakeholders, employees, and bring them together on a particular theme and and just get that those insights, those deeper truths that you get when people start talking to one another. That's that's really what's quite profound and it excites me about it.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah, I think that's that's exactly what excited me about it too, because I think it marries that it marries that element of human and AI. So it's got that human input, those real conversations, and then it's able to output those stories or those themes to you so you could better understand what people are talking about. I think I saw that you had hosted an adder, I guess they go up to like 20,000 people. Like so when you say scale, you mean scale. That you know you can't do a 20,000-person focus group. Absolutely, right?

Simon Shelley:

And in an hour you've got you've got the synthesis of of of all of those those thoughts, those experiences. And um, I think when you've got you're uh an association, like the Autocare Association, you've if you think about all its m all of your members, you've you've got thousands of years of experience and knowledge combined. How do you harness that? And and that's what is also exciting thing about this tool is that you can tap into that and think what you can do with that. It's it's you you can ultimately provide a new set of relevance and value to to members.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah, and it helps more people, more than the 10, tell their story, which I think is really cool. I got to tell my story today. We were talking about um how associations were using AI and how they weren't, or what our fears or trepidations were in different projects. It was very, very interesting. So I'm really excited to see the output of that because one of the things I think about, you know, as we talk about brands as broadcasters, brands as storytellers, creating content like it's so much on a day-to-day basis. It's, you know, how do you get that information in a format that's digestible? And it feels like, you know, there was a time where I'd be willing to read a whole book, a whole book on AI, and I've probably read one or two. But now I want a white paper, or maybe a one-pager, or now a thread on X, or a carousel on Instagram, or a series on TikTok, right? Like my attention span just keeps getting lower and lower and lower and getting into like those bite-site snippets. And I think it's kind of cool that Natter kind of helps you do that with these bite-sized bite-sized pieces or synthesis of the data that's collected.

Simon Shelley:

You get the trends and the top themes and the actions, but the other thing it it it gives you is these anonymous quotes that are lifted directly from the conversations, what people actually said. I find that so powerful. It it you know that's the trend, but when you see it writ written down as the way that that someone has said it, it just seems to take on a new uh a new meaning because because again it comes back to that human messiness. There's something in there that that you get that deeper, deeper truth. So uh and and again coming coming back to um to creating content, I think uh what one of the things that that broadcasters obsess about is getting to know their audiences and what their audiences think. And it I think it traditionally has been really, really difficult to know that. You know, there's been focus groups, there's been there's been surveys, there's been all sorts of different methods, and I I've actually done a lot of um uh sentiment tracking uh and emotional tracking as well. I used to there's a uh a piece that I I did at the BBC called uh Science of Engagement, and we would uh track eye movements when they when people were watching films. Oh wow. And it would track the emotional peaks. Um so just coming back to the idea that that w if you make someone feel something, you know, there's i if you really wanted to, you could make someone feel something and then you can insert the brand straight after it. That's heck. The emotional peak. Not suggesting that that's necessarily what we want to do, but but it is fascinating when you w to try and go to those those lengths. Yes, it told us a fair bit, but there was always something missing. And I I I feel like NATA can uh provide that. Uh you know, what do people really think? And they won't tell you in the first minute, but after they've been speaking for five, six minutes, you just start to really get under the skin of it.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah. So your your passion and your excitement really just came out when you started talking about Natter. And I think that's so cool to see what your history was in your career, work going through broadcasting, telling stories and working with brands, helping them tell better stories, and now working with Natter to help utilize technology to create new stories and hear more stories than ever before is kind of what it feels like. Wow. This is. Um I mean, what what is what are you excited about next for? Because this is a pretty amazing evolution. It's hard to say what's next. I could have never predicted there was AI, but um, you see a lot and you talk to a lot of brands, and I'm sure you have a forward-looking gaze. So what do you think is coming? Or what are you excited about the most when it comes to these arenas?

Simon Shelley:

I think in the in in the creation of content, um I think what you're seeing across the media landscape is this breaking down of tr traditional funding models, let's say. So um certainly in i i in the UK, but I think uh globally the the commissioning from traditional broadcasters is is uh is limiting. I think that the there was a peak when it came to the streamers, uh, Netflix, Disney in terms of what they were investing in content, and that's come back down again to justify business models where uh subscriptions weren't actually uh more than the investment they were making in in content. So that's all all that's to say that content needs to come from somewhere and it needs to be funded uh somehow. So there's an opportunity for brands to step in. And i I think m there's a lot of brands out there maturing to the point where they really can make content that is of of genuine entertainment to audiences. And I say that because you know BBC it was always the mantra for a hundred years was inform, educate and entertain. And the latter is the most important. You cannot inform or educate anyone unless you've made them feel something at first. And I think brands can really fill this gap and make brilliant content. So I think we're going to start seeing um series, programmes, films, and I look, we have done already to a degree, you know, Red Bull leading the way in because it's they're not just selling energy drinks anymore, they're they're making content that's uh that's aligned to their their values, their their themes. I and there's been some Dre Beats and Dre. I think there was a great documentary on Netflix, but I think we're gonna see more of that, and there'll be some that won't get it quite right, but I think we're gonna see some brands get it just right in terms of genuine value to audiences and entertainment. How they measure the impact of that in terms of their bottom line, I I think that's the next question. Maybe that's where NASA comes in, but I I I I I'm excited It's not like I'm excited about the content itself, I'm just excited that um what excites me is that that we want phenomenal content to be made. Like we're in a golden age at the moment of television film, and I don't want that that to end because of but it can continue. It's just it's just going to evolve.

Stacey Miller:

That's amazing. I think you're absolutely right. We are in a golden age. We've had more entertaining content, more informative content than we've ever had before. We have tools at our disposal like we've never had before. Content is democratized, and there's a massive, massive opportunities for brands to be the broadcasters, to be the storytellers, and to use all those technology and tools to their advantage in order to break through the noise and really reach some of those awareness goals that they have.

Simon Shelley:

And if if I may, can I explain? I don't know if I'm going to going on. But there's one more thing. You mentioned before about working with lots of brands, and and so many brands say, Oh, I don't know if we've got a story. I'm not sure if it's, you know, we've got anything to talk about. And every brand has got a story. And it comes back it's the people, the trials and tribulations. And I I don't think a lot of brands, and I wonder if autocare brands that that are starting to have that voice making content, maybe saying to themselves, I don't know if we've got anything that's that interesting. You uh they absolutely have. Uh they've been through they've they've got knowledge, experience, they've got ups and they've got downs, and I I think they there's a bit of confidence that should be built in that. And as you as you know, you've got to start, you start somewhere, and then in in terms of how the podcast is just such a success and how you've seen that grow, you you gotta start so to do something, do something today.

Stacey Miller:

Yeah. Okay, okay. I'm gonna to close, I'm gonna riff on an idea because you were riffing on storytelling ideas, so I'm gonna riff on an idea. Um, you know, the aftermarket, the auto care industry, we're repair and maintenance, and uh, we often get joked about because there's a there's a sexy side of automotive, says all the performance parts and the turbos and the wheels and stuff. Cool. I love that side too. Um, but we're the we're the non-sexy side, we're the repair and the maintenance. So, you know, I get hey, we don't really have a story. We uh we sell wrenches. Okay, but what if the wrench was a legacy that a father passed down to a son or a daughter?

Simon Shelley:

Yeah.

Stacey Miller:

The wrench is a saber and the kid uses it, it's a special power to repair cars as he gets older. I don't know. Maybe we're talking, I'm thinking superheroes because we were talking about Disney, but um I get so excited about stuff like that because I see the potential in how some of our brands can really break through the noise. And I really appreciate you coming here to have this inspiring conversation with me.

Simon Shelley:

It's a pleasure. I I I can't wait to develop the Star Wars uh trilogy with the Oscar market. This is phenomenal. Great way to get excited. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Thank you very much. Cheers.

Stacey Miller:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care on Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode. And don't forget to leave us a rating and review that helps others discover our content. AutoCare on Air is a production of the Autocare Association, dedicated to advancing the autocare industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives, visit autocare.org.

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Behzad Rassuli

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Jacki Lutz

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Michael Chung

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Stacey Miller

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