Unleashing Creativity and Breaking Industry Boundaries

Could you be stifling your best ideas without even realizing it? Most people don't recognize their own creative potential, limiting themselves with the false belief that "creativity" belongs only to artists and designers. This enlightening conversation with Kyle Scheele, a "patron of crazy ideas," and Brian Matthias, Senior Content Syndication Manager at Dorman Products, dismantles this misconception and reveals how creativity drives progress in every industry, including the auto care industry.

Kyle shares fascinating stories of how creativity manifests in unexpected ways. His central message resonates powerfully: "There's no such thing as a not creative human being." The discussion challenges listeners to recognize that creativity is fundamentally about problem-solving, something we all do daily, whether we're making spreadsheets or a dinner with limited ingredients.

Perhaps most surprisingly, the conversation reveals how constraints actually fuel innovation rather than hinder it. When resources are limited, true creativity emerges. As Kyle explains, "If you have all the money and time in the world, you don't really need to get creative." This insight is particularly valuable for the auto care industry, where adapting to rapid technological changes within real-world limitations requires creative thinking at every level.

The episode also examines how organizations can create environments where ideas flourish. Brian emphasizes the importance of "creating opportunities for brainstorming sessions where everyone feels safe to give their most crazy ideas." Both guests agree that the auto care industry needs more creative thinkers to address challenges like talent recruitment and technological disruption.

Ready to unlock your creative potential? Stop telling yourself you're not creative and start taking small steps to bring your ideas to life. As Kyle powerfully states, "Everything that ever pushed us forward came because somebody was dissatisfied with the way the world was." Subscribe now and discover how embracing creativity could transform your career and our industry.

To learn more about the Auto Care Association visit autocare.org.

To learn more about our show and suggest future topics and guests, visit autocare.org/podcast

Chapters

• 0:00 Kyle's Rock-themed Birthday Party
• 7:43 Introduction to Creativity Discussion
• 9:51 Defining Creativity as Problem Solving
• 16:14 The Value of Constraints in Creativity
• 22:40 Being Scrappy with Creative Ideas
• 28:36 Creating Environments Where Ideas Thrive
• 35:21 Nature vs Nurture in Creativity
• 40:02 Attracting Talent Through Creative Culture
• 48:57 Final Thoughts on Embracing Creativity

Transcript

Jacki Lutz: 0:00

But while we're sitting here, I want to hear about your birthday party.

Kyle Scheele: 0:04

Did I tell you about it? You?

Jacki Lutz: 0:06

did Okay.

Kyle Scheele: 0:06

Okay, so for the podcast. I don't know where I'm looking, maybe over here. I had a birthday party I was turned 39. And about a year ago, last summer, my friend Jesse started sending me this Instagram account. They have this guy, it's called Travel Lift Stones Repeat, and this guy travels all around europe and there are all these like big stones that, for whatever reason, before people had phones they would go around lifting up rocks for fun and it was like a rock that's just big enough where the average person can't lift it, but a really strong guy can lift it.

Kyle Scheele: 0:39

And this guy's just going around doing all of these and they're huge and unwieldy. They don't have handles or anything. So so he's like bent over these rocks and my friend just was like obsessed with this. He's like we have to do this. And he goes do you have any rocks on your land? And I have this big creek that flows through. And I was like, oh, I have so many rocks. So I kept sending him pictures of these rocks and he was like this one's too big.

Kyle Scheele: 0:57

Bought some new land next door and there was this big rock. I mean, it's probably four and a half feet wide and it's just barely sticking out of the hillside and I was like I wonder how deep this thing goes. So I came up with this idea Like I could have ripped it out with a tractor or something. But I was like let's have all my friends over for my birthday and we'll dig this rock out of the ground, but we can't use shovels or picks or anything like that. We'll only use whatever we can find in the woods. So somehow I got 50 people to agree to this 50?

Jacki Lutz: 1:31

You have 50 friends, and then you had 50 people say yes, well they have a lot of kids.

Kyle Scheele: 1:34

So there were a lot of children. Probably half of those were children, which was great because the kids were all in. All the guys were in, the kids were in, the moms were just kind of like we'll supervise, and most of the moms were going don't squish your fingers.

Kyle Scheele: 1:50

And uh and so we had everyone over and then I made worksheets for everyone so I drew like the top of the rock and then I was like, guess how deep it goes?

Kyle Scheele: 1:58

So there were predictions that were made and then everyone had to go into the forest and find a digging implement and then we all went around and said why we picked that digging implement. And then we started digging on this rock and it took probably like 20, 25 minutes or so, but we got this thing out and it was just like moment where we exposed the back of the rock and turned out to be this giant slab that was almost completely like vertical in the ground. And then we wedged all these logs in there and prieded it out and everyone was going nuts and cheering and it was, uh, it was wonderful, your birthday dream, it was so great. And then we did all these other like rock themed activities like uh, we cracked open geodes and we we like did sifting for gyms in the creek and stuff, and uh, and then I had a playlist that was all songs like I am a rock, I love rock and roll, like a Rolling Stone, stuff like that. So it was great, it was so much fun.

Jacki Lutz: 2:51

Like a rock. Did you have Barb's? I did have like a rock, yeah.

Kyle Scheele: 2:54

Which I just think of from that car commercial back in the day. But yeah, it was awesome. And then we made commemorative t-shirts for everyone that in latin it said I came, I saw, I dug. And then on the back it had like this we called it rock fest 25 and it was this giant logo with like sun rays exploding out of this rock. And then it said, uh, the bottom. I was very proud of this, I can't open this on my own. It said, uh, fortune favors the bold, but gravity favors the boulder. So, um, it was. It was great, it was a super fun time and everybody enjoyed it. And all the parents texted me. They're like my kids wore the shirt to school on Monday. First. They all wanted to tell their friends about it.

Jacki Lutz: 3:31

I just have to wonder. As a kid, you go to all kinds of adult birthday parties, right? And then they go to this one.

Kyle Scheele: 3:39

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz: 3:39

And then did you just ruin birthdays parties for everybody.

Kyle Scheele: 3:46

Also like 10 years ago, well ago, when I turned 30, uh, for my birthday party I had a viking funeral for my 20s and so I built this big viking ship out of like cardboard and hot glue and it was like eight feet tall and 16 feet long and and then I set it on fire. And all of those a lot of the same kids they were much younger than um were there. So they're like yeah, I think they're just like this guy has weird birthday parties. But there are also a lot of younger kids there, because we've just got a lot of friends with young kids and so I was thinking about this, because a lot of the kids were probably under 10 for sure, and I was like man, I bet this is just going to be a weird memory where they're like I don't really remember what happened, but I have this memory of digging a rock out of the ground for a birthday party and it's going to sound insane and I just think that that's great.

Jacki Lutz: 4:31

So yeah, that's all you wanted.

Kyle Scheele: 4:33

Yeah, just planning weird memories in kids' minds so they're like what was that?

Jacki Lutz: 4:37

Well, if that's not creativity.

Kyle Scheele: 4:40

Might be insanity.

Brian Matthias: 4:45

It's might be insanity, it's a little, it's a mix.

Kyle Scheele: 4:46

I feel like the bar is always raised, though, like you, you, what's next? I know well, that's my friends. I was telling him about it because I have some friends in phoenix and, uh, I went out to dinner with one of them last night and he was like, was this like a big birthday? And I was like, no, it's 39. I was like next year is the big birthday, so I gotta think of something to top this oh shoot but we're gonna.

Kyle Scheele: 5:00

We're gonna make a big sign out of the rock for our land and it's great, naturally.

Jacki Lutz: 5:04

Yeah, naturally.

Kyle Scheele: 5:06

I like that. Our property is like between these two hills and you can't see it from the road, so I call it Hidden Valley Ranch and my wife, just like, rolls her eyes at that. So I'm going to get these big metal letters that mount to the rock that say Hidden Valley Ranch.

Jacki Lutz: 5:22

Somebody like one of your other friends needs to like name theirs, whatever the competitor ranches. So I'm like off brand.

Kyle Scheele: 5:25

Yeah, I don't, I don't even know what it would be.

Jacki Lutz: 5:27

There's there's like no clear second place for ranch dressing, it's just ranch has like our hidden valley, has like the first, second, third spot yeah, because they've got a bunch of different kinds too. Yeah, yeah like a homemade version.

Kyle Scheele: 5:39

Homemade is the best, yeah, for sure, but I'm still trying to get them to sponsor me, so sponsor my land. One day my wife and I were driving by this really elaborate mansion out in the country and they had all of these concrete pineapples, I think on top of every fence post and I was like babe, and she immediately knew what I was thinking. She goes no, we're not putting ranch dressing bottles on our fence posts. I was like, but if they're like concrete and they're really cool, she said no.

Jacki Lutz: 6:06

So I actually think that's kind of clever.

Kyle Scheele: 6:07

I know it's concrete. It makes it kind of looks fancier. Yeah, it's a classy bottle too.

Jacki Lutz: 6:12

So put anything in cement, yeah it looks cooler.

Kyle Scheele: 6:16

It's legit, yeah, so I'm probably going to do it, and then it's easier to get forgiveness and permission. That's what I think.

Jacki Lutz: 6:21

Yeah, you kind of just ruined like. I threw a fifth birthday party for my kid on Saturday before I left, and it was power Rangers.

Kyle Scheele: 6:29

That's also good I feel like I did a disservice. I should have done something you could have saved a lot of money just digging a rock out of the ground.

Jacki Lutz: 6:35

And at that age they just love anything. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Scheele: 6:38

Oh man, there was dirt was flying in kids' faces, faces, and they were just having the time of their life. So it's so fun do you have kids? I have four kids, yeah and you have kids, brian.

Kyle Scheele: 6:45

Yes, yeah, they at there's a certain age where they'll just take anything as a toy yeah, like a rock and even like my son is 15 and my daughter was 13, I have 15, 13, 11 and 7 and they were all into it, like even my you know my son's in high school, like he's probably too cool for this, but he was all in. He was like, yeah, this is great, let's do it.

Kyle Scheele: 7:05

So yeah, you just have to give everyone a mission like we have to get this rock out of the ground. I gave an inspiring speech about mankind's eternal battle against nature and all this kind of stuff and so, and then at the end I said for those about to rock, we salute you and that was like what kicked us off so well well, Alex Weber, our keynote from yesterday, who is a friend of yours on his podcast, talked a lot about going all in and going all in on stuff.

Kyle Scheele: 7:31

That's yeah, you got to commit to the bit. That's what I say.

Jacki Lutz: 7:34

Absolutely Welcome to Auto Care On Air, a candid podcast for a curious industry. I'm Jackie Lutz, content director at the Auto Care Association, and this is Carpool Conversations, where we collaborate on today's most relevant power skills. We're all headed in the same direction, so let's get there together. Welcome everybody to another episode of Carpool Conversations. We are at AutoCare Connect in Phoenix, arizona, and today we are tackling the subject of creativity. We're going to see where this takes us, because I have two rather opposite guests with me, which I'm really excited about, and it was strategic. I have Brian Mathias here, who is the Senior Content Syndication Manager for Dorman Products. Welcome.

Brian Matthias: 8:32

Thank you for having me. I love the podcast. Happy to be here.

Jacki Lutz: 8:35

Yes, I know You've been a fan of the podcast since the beginning.

Brian Matthias: 8:43

Of course it makes that ride into the office. It's painful. I feel like I'm learning and I'm doing my job at the same time and it's just been great.

Jacki Lutz: 8:46

That's amazing. I just I never get sick of hearing things like that, so thank you, it's so cool to have you on the show now, so thanks for being here. And then we have Kyle Sheely, who is the patron of Crazy Ideas. He's also a speaker, author, weirdo and a rock enthusiast. That's true. Author, weirdo and a rock enthusiast, that's true, but he really goes around and really encourages people to think big, think crazy, don't limit yourself and think outside the box. Yeah, so let's tackle this subject of creativity and one of them, the reason I wanted you to, and I wanted kind of like Brian who doesn't I think the normal person wouldn't think that you have a creative role.

Brian Matthias: 9:24

Right, right, yeah, it's ones and zeros in our world.

Jacki Lutz: 9:28

Feels a little black and white. Yep, yeah, but you know one of Kyle, one of your messages is, like you know, creativity is. Every role can be creative. Yeah, and it's ultimately problem solving is what you say so I would love to just kick us off and kind of get your little spiel Spiel. Love to just kick us off and kind of get your little spiel, spiel.

Kyle Scheele: 9:45

Spiel the Sheely. Spiel Right.

Jacki Lutz: 9:47

Yeah so. Trademark. Tell us about creativity, why is it so important to you? Yeah, so.

Kyle Scheele: 9:51

I've been fascinated by creativity for my whole life. Like I tell the story on stage, I started a t-shirt company when I was 17 years old and just making dump shirts and selling them to my friends, and it seemed like this was a crazy idea, like no one's going to buy this and I don't know how to run a business. I didn't know how to design t-shirts, I didn't know how to do any of it. But like a year and a half later I was in Urban Outfitters all over the country and I was in one store in Canada so I could tell people I was an international fashion designer and that kind of taught me the power of like. Hey, sometimes chasing an idea that seems crazy actually is a really great move. And so I became really fascinated with like where do ideas come from and how do we get more of them? And I realized that like everybody's trajectory is shaped by the ideas that they have and are able to bring to life. And it used to be like you could just kind of have one good idea in your life and and that was enough. And now the world is just moving so fast that everything's changing all the time and it's not really a question of like will your industry be disrupted by someone else? It's, who's going to do it, when will it happen, and are you going to be on the right side of that or not? And so I just started really studying creativity and I realized, like, when you talk to different people about it, everyone describes it differently, but fundamentally it's the same exact thing. Whether you're making, you know, a spreadsheet or an art piece or a sculpture or an event, it's all the same steps.

Kyle Scheele: 11:04

And we've done this weird thing where we've said, well, only some of that counts as creative work. Like, oh, if you make a sculpture, that's creative, but if you make a business plan, that's not creative, and that's just not true. And so what we've done is said, well, some people are creative and some people aren't, and that's also not true. There's no such thing as a not creative human being. All of us constantly. I mean, we're creating a podcast right now and we're creating an event here today, but a lot of people would go, oh well, that's not creative.

Kyle Scheele: 11:29

And because of that, like, your brain is not a truth seeking machine, it's a belief justification machine. And when you decide, oh, I'm not creative, then your brain kind of just shuts that part off and goes okay, well, like, well, then when I have an idea, just throw it away because we don't do anything with that, and that's a really sad way to limit your life. But also then we end up doing that to other people and we say, oh, that's so-and-so, they do this and that's so-and-so and they do this. It's like no, that's a human being and they probably have great ideas and they probably have inputs and experiences and wisdom that you don't have, because they've had a different life journey than you are. And so I just think if we can tap into that and give permission to ideas and create an environment where ideas have a chance, then we'll see better results.

Jacki Lutz: 12:10

Yeah, and Brian, I know you're going to agree with me not to put words in your mouth, but I just feel like the auto industry the auto care industry in general needs more creativity, more crazy thinkers, more people thinking outside of the box.

Brian Matthias: 12:25

More creativity, more crazy thinkers, more people thinking outside of the box less of the limitations A hundred percent.

Brian Matthias: 12:28

Open it up A hundred percent. I think it's why it is encouraged in multiple roles. It's kind of still touted as an older industry where there's not something crazy coming out of it. Yes, our world may not be all of the autonomous cars right now. That's where you see creative people. You don't see it in the traditional hard parts, your retail business, too much other than something like AI, but there's people that have to continue to evolve this for this industry.

Jacki Lutz: 12:58

Yeah, and we need more of those crazy thinkers. And it's funny because you come to events like this, like Connect, where you meet almost a thousand different people and you talk to them for a minute and you realize there's so many people out there that have such good ideas or like are creative brains, but like they don't necessarily bring it to the table. And it's probably because of what you're saying, kyle, where maybe they were told at one point they're not a creative person, so they don't look at that as being creative.

Kyle Scheele: 13:22

Or they're not given permission or encouragement to do that and a lot of roles, like you know. Your boss tells you to do these certain things and then you do those and you think you're doing a great job, but there's never a question of like, hey, do you have any other ideas for how we could make this better or how we could improve this process. And so you only end up getting ideas from people who are naturally outspoken and who, like I, was always the guy who I would say I'm fundamentally unemployable, because every job that I ever had within six months I would go, hey, why are we doing it this way? We should do it this other way, this would be better. And then they would just go, oh, I'll just keep doing it the way we're doing it. And that was kind of where I checked out and I was like, oh, okay, and so people like me are naturally like ideas forward, but a lot of people just aren't that way, and so then you don't end up getting their ideas and they just do the thing that they're told.

Kyle Scheele: 14:08

I had this story. I was doing some consulting work with this really innovative company down in Texas, doing like green chemistry work in like oil and gas and these industries where they're pumping a lot of really nasty stuff into the ground, and these guys had come up with this stuff that was like biodegradable, it disappeared in 30 days and it replaced all these really bad actors and they were just like blowing up making all this money. And then one day their head chemist was at a conference and just a bunch of chemists from all different industries and one of the guys was like, hey, this chemical that you guys have developed, it's really interesting and if you could get it to do this one other thing, it would have all these applications in our industry too. And he was like, oh, I bet we can do that. So he goes back to the lab, comes back and he's like this opened up this like multiple millions of dollars of annual recurring revenue, totally different industry.

Kyle Scheele: 14:55

And the CEO heard that story and he's like there's probably not just two industries, like there's probably lots of places where this stuff could work. And he goes back to his team and they're all like PhD chemists, brilliant people, and he goes, hey, are there other industries that this could work in? And this woman immediately goes like, oh yeah, I just came from this other world. Like our stuff would work great there. We don't even have to change it, it would just work as it is now. And he starts doing the math in his head. He's like that's like also millions of dollars in recurring revenue, and he goes why didn't you tell me this? And she goes. You never asked. She's like I thought I was getting good performance reviews, like I was doing all the stuff that was on my you know to-do list every day, and so I think that that happens a lot, where there are great ideas that are sitting inside of people's heads, but those people's ideas haven't been given a chance, and so you end up paying those people the same amount of money if you get the ideas out of them or you don't.

Kyle Scheele: 15:39

And oftentimes, when you do get the ideas out of them, not only do they feel like, oh, I'm heard and listened to, but then they're also opening up these business opportunities and it gives them something more engaging to do, like there are so many upsides, but you have to create an environment where people even know that that's something that you want out of them.

Jacki Lutz: 15:57

Yeah, and a lot of times you hear the phrase thinking outside of the box. So let's talk a little bit about what the box is.

Kyle Scheele: 16:05

Yeah, I think that that whole phrase is wrong. I don't think that creativity has anything to do with thinking outside the box, because I think the box is a vital part of the creative process. Like I always say that thinking outside the box is easy If your boss says you know, hey, we need to get this done in the next six weeks, and you go well, what if we got it done in the next six years? Right, that's very outside the box and that's not going to get you the results that you want in your performance review.

Kyle Scheele: 16:28

If you have all of the money and all of the time and all the resources in the world, you don't really need to get creative. You just write a big check and the thing gets done. Where creativity comes into play is when you don't have those things, when you have constraints and you go well, we don't have the team that we wish we had, we don't have the budget, we don't have the time. All of a sudden, those constraints force creativity. You know, I think about like Apollo 13. Spoiler alert if you haven't seen the movie but it came out like 30 years ago.

Jacki Lutz: 16:55

You had your time, you had your chance.

Kyle Scheele: 16:58

It's been on streaming platforms for a long time. But in that movie they tell the story of you know, when this disaster starts to happen. And one of the first things that they did was NASA went. What do they have up there, like, what's the problem, what's broken, what's working and what do they have access to to fix it? And you know they went through all the traditional stuff, like this is the toolkit that they have on board. But they also thought, okay, well, they have these manuals, these flight manuals, and if we tear the covers off of those, those are kind of made out of like a stiff cardboard material. We can use that for something. They have this much duct tape, they have this much of these different bags and supplies.

Kyle Scheele: 17:30

And then they just locked scientists in rooms and said figure this out like you can come out of here when you figure out how to save these guys. And it was that kind of the constraints of here's what they do have, here's what they don't, here's what the problem at hand is. That forced the issue. You know, if you, if I, were to take you to a arts and crafts store and say you can have anything you want in here, make something cool, I could probably come back two days later and you'd be walking around like, oh, what about this? Maybe I should try this. But if I hey, here's a box of popsicle sticks and some glue and I need you to make a bridge and you have 30 minutes like you would get a bridge made in that amount of time, and I think constraints are just a huge part of the process. But oftentimes we see constraints and then we just go well, I can't get it done. It's like no, no, no. That's why the creativity is a big part of this.

Jacki Lutz: 18:10

Does that sound familiar to you, Brian?

Brian Matthias: 18:41

no-transcript, like no, we can't do exactly what you're asking, but try to figure it out through different options, and that's where the creativity needs to come. But I do kind of agree with that. The box needs to be there because, like you said, I would like to, oh, put it out in another month. You don't need it right away.

Jacki Lutz: 19:03

You need that, is it? Limitations, is that the right word?

Kyle Scheele: 19:06

Yeah, limitations, constraints and I also think that when you're doing that, like you mentioned, sometimes you end up saying, hey, we can't do that, but we can do this other thing, and sometimes that ends up forcing you to go oh, actually that's what we needed. Like when you have unlimited resources, what often happens is scope creep, where you go, hey, let's do this thing and it's going to accomplish A, b and C, and then somebody else goes well, hey, we kind of are sitting on a lot of cash right now. We don't have a lot to do, for only like 10% more. We could also do D, e and F. And then pretty soon you've got like LMNOP and XYZ and you've got all this stuff in, and that's a recipe for something that never really gets done because it just exponentially increases the timeline and the complexity. And even if it does get done, you end up with something that's like kind of good at a lot of things and not really very good at any one of those things. It's like a Swiss army knife of like it has all these functions. You're like no one uses it for any of those things.

Kyle Scheele: 19:57

And when constraints come in, all of a sudden you go hey, the budget got slashed in half. We don't have this time. We have to launch it in six weeks. Half the team got pulled onto this other project. All of a sudden you're like okay, x, y, z, element, all that stuff's off the table. And sometimes you end up looking even at the original, like A, b, because we had B and C, so like let's, a can wait. And you're like B is really the thing that we needed to get done this whole time. And, and you know, like you said, like sometimes you go, we can't do that, we can do this, and they go oh, actually that was, that was fine, but that's what we needed anyway. So all of that gets forced by the constraints of the situation.

Jacki Lutz: 21:19

So just thinking through, like the process of like somebody who might have a creative idea and they want to pitch it or something like to that extent, something. I watched one of your keynotes and you had a story it was actually the story about the t-shirts and I felt like it was just very scrappy, like they kept saying no or you kept getting no one was answering the phone, or like they, you know, you have to be asked you know and like they don't accept.

Jacki Lutz: 21:44

You know all this, all these things, but you were kind of scrappy with it. You still did it, or you just didn't take that no for an answer. So there's gotta be something. You might want to tell that story real quick but there's gotta be something kind of applicable to somebody in the auto care industry who has an idea. But they're going to be met with some resistance one way or another and you know being scrappy about it.

Kyle Scheele: 22:05

Yeah. So the story is I started selling t-shirts out of the trunk of my car when I was 17. I was a full-time student. I was in high school, I was student body president. I was like, applying to colleges, I didn't really have any window of time. I would apply to part-time jobs and they'd be like you have 30 minutes of time every week that you could work here. Like that's not, you're not a good candidate, and so I needed some money. So I was like, oh, I'll design t-shirts and sell them to my friends. And the first t-shirt I ever made had this old lady on it and it said osteoporosis is bad to the bone. And that shirt sold like hotcakes.

Kyle Scheele: 22:36

And then I just kept making more dumb shirts and, over time, like the first note that I got was I got called down to the principal's office and he said you can't run a business on campus. And I was like, okay, well, where, where do school grounds end? And so then it became a thing where, like me and my customers would walk to the edge of the parking lot at the end of the school day and we would step into the street and I would sell them a t-shirt. And and I have this quote like on the screen in my keynote, where my principal was like as long as you don't get hit by a car, it's okay by me. And so, like I realized, oh, sometimes a no is just like just a no for this particular thing. He doesn't really care what I'm doing, he just has to be able to tell the school board. Hey, I told them he couldn't do that and then later, you know, when I got into college, I was like, oh, I want to try to get this into retail. And so I called Urban Outfitters and they were just like we don'll open it, like if you send. I sent them a suitcase, like this vintage suitcase. I just mailed it to their office and inside was like all of our products, our best-selling t-shirts, and then I made this book out of like a folded pair of pants, so it looked like these vintage corduroy pants. And then you opened it up and there was a catalog and all this stuff. And, sure enough, I mailed it to him and like a week later this guy calls me and he's like hey, I got your package, like your suitcases on my desk and I was like I thought you didn't accept unsolicited packages.

Kyle Scheele: 23:50

So sometimes a no is like it's kind of a filter, like there are definitely times when someone says no and that means no and you should listen to that. But there are also plenty of times when someone says no because that's just what their policy is, and then later you find out wait, that guy didn't get that, he went around or he found a way in or whatever. And it's just kind of like these are the, that's the cost of admission to see. Like are you going to be scrappy, are you going to give it a shot? And then even within projects, like sometimes, your boss says this is the deadline. And then you find out well, if I go over the deadline by two days, he's going to consider that still a win, or like he said the deadline because he knew that we would be delayed.

Kyle Scheele: 24:28

Or you know, I built a house a couple years ago. I thought that the budget we agreed on was the budget and the builder had different thoughts about that. You know he was like, hey, we were only 20% over. That's incredible. And I'm like that's not incredible. I'm the one paying for that. So just realize, like people say things all the time that they don't mean and that you know they're. They're just saying that or that's how it's been done in the past, or last time it took six months to do this and. And so I think all of those expectations like yes, there are boundaries and there are hard yeses and nos, but also sometimes they don't know because you haven't, they haven't seen the thing that you're trying to do, and sometimes you have to just believe in your idea and go. I think we could get this done and I'm going to give it a shot.

Jacki Lutz: 25:08

It's so funny. I have like a applicable stories for this Cause, like when we started this podcast and we pitched it, um, it was like a yes, like that's definitely do it. But just so, you know, we already got our budget agreed on. We don't have any budget for this. So I spent like the first several months doing this with zero budget, you know, and like really trying to be scrappy with where we spent our money and making sure we got the exact right equipment and trying to, you know, make it as efficient as possible, and it turns out that was also loose, you know, and I was working really hard for these six months trying to like no budget for this. But you know that opened up and that would have been probably cleared if I had just been a little bit more specific with my managers and been like tell me more, what does this no budget mean?

Kyle Scheele: 25:48

Well, and also, sometimes, when you, when the initial no is because you've never done a podcast before, probably, and they're they're like they've seen other employees before have ideas and then nothing happens with them and it feels like a waste and they they don't see how much you believe in this thing as much as you do. And then, once you start actually putting in the time and and making it happen, they're like oh, this is really great, like we'll we'll help, kind of pour some gas on this fire. But the initial no is usually because they're like oh, this sounds like more homework for me, you know, the first t shirt that I ever designed.

Kyle Scheele: 26:19

Before. Before I was selling t shirts in school. The kind of origin story of all of this was I was on the tennis team and we were we were not a fancy school, it was this public high school, very rural, and so, like we didn't have polo shirts and nice stuff we had t-shirts every year that would just say the tennis team, you know thing on there. And our coach was like hey, does anybody want to design this t-shirt? And I was kind of a smart ass and I was like, oh, let's make one that says our high school is called Logan Rogersville. It's like let's make it say Logan Rogersville extreme ping pong team instead of tennis team. I was like that's kind of what tennis is.

Kyle Scheele: 26:50

And so I made this whole thing and had this I mean just really over the top graphics and stuff and I brought it to my coach and he's like we're not wearing those two meets. And I was like, well, we should sell them, cause I had been drawing. Were like, oh, I would buy that. He was like no, we're not selling the t-shirts. And so I was just like I'll just sell them. So I just went around to all my friends. I was like, hey, would you guys want to buy one?

Kyle Scheele: 27:10

And we sold like over a hundred of these t-shirts and then I made everyone pay up front. So then I have like $1,500 in cash or something and I go to keep it. And he was like, oh, that sounds great. Like you know, I didn't think that you would do it and I realized later he's a teacher, he's a coach, he's a parent, he's a husband, like. He has so many things on his plate and when a 17-year-old comes in, he's like we should do this. He just hears like that's the idea that they have in their head of what your idea is, and maybe those are different things there's like a critical thinking or like emotional intelligence part of this creativity.

Jacki Lutz: 28:00

Can you think of any other applicable stories in your life, brian, where maybe you hadn't? Because I can think of so many? I'm thinking of so many projects from like I got a no and I took the no and then I was like, okay, they don't want to do it, yeah, I would say.

Brian Matthias: 28:12

I would say the content professional is used to the no of it's the. We have our kind of set processes. You continue to do that. But when you're able to kind of break out from that and hey, I'm, I did this on at night, I made this little database, made this little tool here's how it works and you get kind of your your own time in front, in front of the camera per se, where you present something you worked on the side and it's like Whoa, okay, you can make that part of your job now. So there are those opportunities, but a lot of times, hey, it doesn't fit right now, we're too busy, that type of thing.

Jacki Lutz: 28:48

Yeah, and you mentioned in the beginning, kyle, about creating an environment where creativity can really blossom, and I think with your story, specifically with getting no's from urban outfitters, I think of that scenario in an office with a manager. Right, it's a good message for managers out there to maybe not say no so quickly to everything. Maybe give some of these projects a chance.

Kyle Scheele: 29:14

Yeah, and to give also frameworks and stuff for people to work around. We're talking about constraints and I think that one of the questions I always ask leaders is two questions Do your people know the problems that are keeping you up at night? Do they know the things that you're worried about? Because a lot of times they don't. A lot of you know employees know this is what I was told to do, I'm doing this thing. These are my measurable metrics and they don't necessarily know.

Kyle Scheele: 29:36

Oh, my boss is worried about this competitor or this market trend or these tariffs or whatever, and so do they know that? And then second, just as important do they know that? And then second, just as important do they know what's the process for suggesting a solution to one of those things? Like, if I work for you and I have an idea that could solve your problems, like where do I take it? Who do I bring that to? What's the process for getting that idea implemented? What resources are available to test out this idea? How do we get feedback on the idea?

Kyle Scheele: 29:59

Because if I don't know those things, then probably what happens is what happens to most, and then that's kind of the end of it, that's the end of the idea. And so if you can create an environment where you give permission to ideas and you go, hey, we don't have all of the budget and all the time to just go crazy, like you still have things that you were hired to do, but hey, if you're thinking about this stuff, this is the direction we're trying to go in and this is what I, as a leader, am beating my head against every day, trying to solve. If you have any ideas for that, like I'm all ears. I think just creating that environment and giving permission to that is huge, because most people have never had that in their jobs.

Jacki Lutz: 30:37

Yeah, and I guess one question that you know we kind of talked about in our pre-call that I think is important is the nature versus nurture when it comes to creativity. Like, are people born creative to a certain extent and then that's nurtured into something great, or are people can you learn it? Like if you're already almost 40 years old and you've never felt like you're a creative person, can you become more creative and if so, how?

Kyle Scheele: 31:04

Yeah, I mean, I would say it's both. I think that, like anything else, some people are born very athletic and some people come to athleticism later in life and maybe don't have like the best genetics and they're not going to be a world-class Olympian or something, but they can still go out and run or they can lift or they can, you know, do whatever. It's a matter of some people. Obviously, at anything in life, there are people who are naturally gifted and there are people who are less naturally gifted at that thing. But I don't think that there's any such thing as a creative or a non-creative person.

Kyle Scheele: 31:33

So one of the things that I always do when people say that to me is I'm like, have you ever cooked a meal? Like, have you ever looked in your fridge and gone I have to make something out of this? I only have these three. That's creativity. Like that's. Done that before? Okay, have you ever had a deadline that was the last minute and you didn't think you were going to get it done and you figured out how to do it? That's creative. Have you ever entertained your children when the TV broke, or whatever that's creative.

Kyle Scheele: 32:00

So then, if you can do that, well, now we've accepted, okay, I am a creative person At best, the worst thing you can say is well, I'm just not a very good creative person. Okay, well, we can take you from a B to an A, but we can't take you from I can't do this at all to I can do this Like. You just have to acknowledge and accept you have been doing this your whole life. To be a human being is to be creative, and it's just. How do we nurture those things and how do we continue to get better at them?

Jacki Lutz: 32:25

Yeah, I almost wonder, like because we talk a little bit about, you know, using creativity in your personal life, and sometimes that's easier, right, because you have a little. You don't have necessarily managers in your. You might have a wife, you know but your own aspirations or whatever your own values. You know you have your limitations around things but you're still able to do a lot with your personal life that's very creative, like some of the examples you just said, and maybe people don't make that connection of like bringing that into their professional life.

Kyle Scheele: 33:06

I think there are also pros to having a defined problem to solve. You know one of the things that, like, I was talking with a friend recently and he's a very talented like painter and sculptor and designer, and I was like, hey, what are you working on? He's like man, I've just been like I haven't been feeling inspired lately. I haven't had like an idea that I wanted to work on and and and I think that happens to a lot of people like they might have an idea personally, but they're like well, I don't know what this is for, what the benefit is, so I'm not going to do it, whereas at your job, you know what the objective is. You know this. This is the problem that we're trying to solve, this is the market we're trying to get into, and so you have like a thing to aim that creativity at. So I think there are pros and cons to both. Do you have any? Is any of this sparking anything?

Jacki Lutz: 33:54

in you, Brian.

Brian Matthias: 33:55

Absolutely so. Um kind of back in the day I also had my own little t-shirt brand. I think it's something that creative people do. Um, it was centered around flat track motorcycle racing. I had a little brand with a friend, um, but that was hard to always bring into the work life of like hey, how did my t-shirts actually come into the work life? But when I explain that story to people I go oh wait, I am a little creative. I think that recognition in your creativity can come from just conversations of what you do outside of work.

Jacki Lutz: 34:26

Yeah, and then kind of bringing those things in. Let's talk a little bit about belief. There's a lot of conversation about if you believe you're creative, your brain will believe you're creative and you'll get more out of it. Where does belief come into play?

Kyle Scheele: 34:49

brain is not a truth seeking machine, it's a belief justification machine. There's this quote that I share from Warren Buffett, and he says what the human being is best at doing is interpreting all new information so that their prior conclusions remain intact. It's easy for us to go well, this is the thing I believe and this is how I've been operating my whole life, and so I'm just going to continue to believe that, which means that when you know, we see this all the time, you show somebody evidence of like hey, this thing that you said is wrong, and they just ignore what you said, and or they kind of plug their ears and go like and so when it comes to creativity, when people have this belief of like I'm not a creative person, then their brains like cool, then we won't come up with any ideas and we won't do anything with that, or we'll just constantly. You know, anytime an idea does come up, we'll go oh, that that must be for someone else, it's not for me.

Kyle Scheele: 35:28

You know, you mentioned somebody being 40 and then having not seen themselves as creative their whole life, I didn't think I was creative or like an artist until I was in my mid thirties. And I would have other people tell me, like Kyle, you're the most creative person that I've ever met. Like I was in college and we had an art guy come in and speak to our class and he was like who's the most creative person you know? And he was like who's the most creative person you know? And one of my friends raised his hand. He was like Kyle, and I was like I'm not creative.

Kyle Scheele: 35:51

And he was like you made your desk out of a pool table that you pulled out of a dumpster. And I was like, yeah, but it seemed obvious to me. And I think that sometimes the things that seem obvious to you, you think, oh well, that's not valuable because, like it's easy. But over, oh, I can try anything, I can try all these different ideas. Because you also realize that people who are like professional artists, professional creatives, they also struggle with doubt and insecurity and imposter syndrome. And so you're like, oh, we're actually all a lot more alike than we are different. And when you acknowledge that, then it gives you permission to go, okay.

Kyle Scheele: 36:26

Well then I can try this thing because, that person also didn't know what they were doing, and it's just in retrospect we see, oh, that idea worked, so that person must have believed in it the whole time, that's not how it goes.

Jacki Lutz: 36:36

Yeah, I almost wonder if there's something to be said too about the crazy creative ideas. Right, that like, okay, maybe. Maybe people shouldn't be so timid to share the crazy ideas just because it could spark something Like once you share it, then your manager or your colleagues or your friends can say yes. But you know these parameters, but like love what you love this idea, and it can grow into something that's feasible and reasonable. But you know that that original spark is probably really important too.

Kyle Scheele: 37:08

Yeah, and creativity is not like this easy, linear, it's very messy. It's a messy process and a lot of times the the final idea that you end up with is so, like you, you have to follow this weird rabbit trail back to be like, oh yeah, we started with this idea, but then someone said we can't do this, and so it changed into this, and then this other thing came in and so, like, if you shut down that initial idea, then you never get all of that other stuff that comes out later on. You have to allow a time for, like, open thinking and there's no wrong answers. Let's just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and then, over time, you pick an idea and then you evolve that idea into its final form. You go, okay, well, this is the timeline that we have, this is the budget that we have, this is, you know, this podcast.

Kyle Scheele: 37:49

Like we have four cameras here and two more cameras wandering around, and so, like, this is a video podcast, but it's also an audio podcast. But this could have been an interview that was published in a book that we wrote down and that would shape how it works. Or you could have interviewed us and then written an essay that was like all of it's the same content, but it evolves into different shapes and forms and that shapes how that final presentation is. And every idea is like that. Every idea starts somewhere and then has to change over time. But if the first response to an idea is like oh nope, that won't work, then we miss out on what that thing could become.

Jacki Lutz: 38:23

Yeah, and Brian, I'm thinking because we did our first couple open mics with ACPN yesterday and it was with the chair and the vice chair, courtney Pedler, and Ryan Bachman, and the last question I asked was how do we get more people into this field for our industry, right, like that is a problem, that, and we sat there and kind of talked about how we don't really know, right, but like that feels like an area that could really use some crazy ideas to start with, right.

Brian Matthias: 38:53

Yep, Absolutely. That's an area where I'm 100 percent passionate about. I think that there are some roles that as a kid in high school, you don't know that data and content all car parts get on a website or that type of information actually exists, that there's people that do that? I certainly didn't. I loved cars. I went to college and I just kind of fell into the automotive aftermarket. I know people are not falling to the automotive aftermarket, but had you captured me, who? I built websites as a kid. I loved cars. This wound up being the perfect role for someone like me. And how can we find those people that have that passion for cars and have that passion for websites, creativity, video production, that type of thing?

Jacki Lutz: 39:39

Yeah. So what do you say, Kyle? What do we do? Do we throw a party and dig out rocks?

Kyle Scheele: 39:43

Well, I think part of it is like again, letting people know that this is a problem. Most employees don't think, oh, it's my job to help us find other people to do their job. But when you create a culture where, where one, it's a fun place to work, your people feel like that their ideas are valued and heard, that that becomes its own recruiting mechanism. My wife got a job a couple years ago working for this company that does video production. They review fitness products and she is constantly talking about how great her job is and how much she loves it and how great the company is and the culture and, as a result, like a ton of her friends have started going like, oh, I kind of hate my job. Like is your company hiring? And it's become this like kind of a joke that there's this.

Kyle Scheele: 40:23

My wife's name is Lindsay. There's like Lindsay Industrial Complex that has like grown up because she's just talking about it all the time. And then the company goes, hey, we need someone to do this. Do you know anyone who does that? She's like yeah, like so again just giving people permission and saying, hey, do you know anyone who does these skills or who would be a good fit for this role? There's so much data that a lot of most people don't find jobs through job recruitment websites and things like that. They things like that. They find it because somebody told them about it.

Jacki Lutz: 40:47

And they go.

Kyle Scheele: 40:48

Oh, my friend, his company is hiring for this. I think about this all the time because I'm always curious about how did people find out about their jobs? Because no guidance counselor was ever like hey, you could travel around and talk at companies for a living. I never knew that was a thing until I was in my 30s. And then people were like hey, this is a job that you can have. My entire life was changed when I was. I saw a Facebook advertisement when I was in my 20s that was like you can go speak in high schools and I was like that's a job that people have. And I went and did that for 10, 12 years and then got into the corporate market and so a lot of it's just figuring out. How do we let people know about this job? How do we let them know, like, what it is and what the cool companies are to work for and what the opportunities are? What does that day-to-day look like? Because you're right, like high school kids don't hear about that stuff they hear about like three jobs.

Kyle Scheele: 41:35

You can be a plumber or a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher, like that's it, you know, and we have to go. No, actually there are so many amazing jobs out there, there are so many cool companies and I think if you can show people, hey, we've created an environment where you get to do interesting work that fits your skill set and that makes a difference, and, like you go home knowing, hey, I made that thing or I helped this thing happen, you'll find great people, great people gravitate to those roles.

Jacki Lutz: 41:58

Yeah, and just thinking out loud specifically with this ACPN community that we have, you guys love each other Like you're like these are our people.

Brian Matthias: 42:07

These are our, these are our friends.

Jacki Lutz: 42:08

I was joking yesterday I kept thinking of that song. They're not like us, they're not like. That's kind of like how I feel like acp and community is um. You guys really kind of found your, your pack, you know um. But one thing you guys aren't as good at is, like you know, marketers.

Jacki Lutz: 42:24

We talk all like I mean, before I even got this job I'd go on linkedin and just talk about how you know the things I was involved with in the industry. You know I was the chair of Yang or I was doing the Marcom committee for the Auto Care Association and the culture at the company I worked for and just kind of give an insight into my job because I loved it, very similar to your wife, and eventually they hired me. How cool is that. But I don't think that that's something that necessarily, like a content professional might be as privy to or feel like it's as necessary. Maybe, or maybe there's some a box there that maybe is even imaginary that you know we should think about. You know you guys have some creative people working now on the ACPN council, very creative social media workers, you know, doing some really great work and it's the awareness piece that needs that, that innovation absolutely.

Brian Matthias: 43:14

I think it's that exposure to those creative people. There are some very creative people in our community and we're starting to see some of them really take their personal branding to the next level and that inspires others. I think watching we we might not always be kind of the first to do something, but but we are definitely thought out when we go to approach something. We see success with branding from certain individuals, the more eagerness to post online about themselves, what they're doing. I think that it has encouraged more people. We're not known to be the quickest adopters. That's kind of a systems type thing. You have to kind of be a little slow there and be cautious. But I think we're kind of turning a corner here as a content professional and really appreciating the personal branding and just conversations like this podcast. If you can hear this conversation that we're having now on your way to work, maybe you might post about your day on LinkedIn or something.

Jacki Lutz: 44:12

Yeah, yeah, and your passion comes through specifically with the content. Professionals Like you guys are passionate about what you do and that comes through, and I think if you're passionate about it, other people start to become curious. Yeah, you know.

Kyle Scheele: 44:23

And I always say like there's no such thing as an idea that just comes out of nowhere. Every idea is just two or more existing things that somebody combines in a new way. And so you know, you didn't invent podcasts. You took a podcast. You said what if we brought that into our industry and what if we made content about this thing? Everything is that Uber is just taxis plus an app, right, and then sometimes it's like minus something Like Alamo Drafthouse is a movie theater minus cell phones and distractions, and they built an entire thing around that. And so oftentimes the ideas that are most creative and outside of the box not that I believe in that, but they seem that way or get that label, are things that nobody thought to combine before, and so sometimes it's just permission of going oh, we've always been like you said. Okay, we're these systems-based people. We don't move that fast. And then all of a sudden, one person does.

Kyle Scheele: 45:10

And someone's like hey, what if I took your inspiration of what you did with LinkedIn and all this stuff? Why can't I do that? No one's done it yet, but why don't I just try that? And then, as soon as that happens, everybody else goes oh, you can do that right, as soon as Uber started. Now there's all these other ride-sharing apps, and that's what happens with innovation is, once somebody combines those things, then everyone else goes oh, I'd never thought of that before. And they just took something out of some other domain and they brought it over and connected it. And I think that's where a lot of the magic happens.

Jacki Lutz: 45:37

It's so funny. You just said minus something and I wrote in my first Waymo yesterday how was that? It's an Uber minus a driver, whose idea was it like Uber minus the driver. The driver is like this huge, hugely important part of. Uber.

Kyle Scheele: 45:52

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz: 45:52

You know that was wild.

Kyle Scheele: 45:53

I don't know why those things terrify me. It's scary when I see them driving down the street with their big LiDAR thing spinning around on the top.

Jacki Lutz: 45:59

I don't understand why they keep the steering wheel there.

Kyle Scheele: 46:01

Yeah. Because that's the creepy part, because it's a ghost driver. Yeah.

Jacki Lutz: 46:05

Just get rid of it, you know. So let's kind of wrap this up. I'd love to go around the room and just kind of give you know a lot of information we just shared. But if there was one thing that you really want to make sure that the audience walks away with, what do each of us hope that that is Kyle. We'll start with you.

Kyle Scheele: 46:21

Yeah, I just think, understand that you as a human being, you are a creative creature. Like that is just part of your DNA, that is part of you. And so then ask yourself like what do I want to bring into the world? Right, everything that ever pushed us forward in life and society and industry, it all came because somebody was dissatisfied with the way the world was. They're like this is a pretty good start, but I have some ideas for how it could be better and they didn't. What most people do is they just bury that in a way and they just kind of like are resentful about the way that things are or they wish it was better. But what moves us forward is when people take those ideas out of their head and out of their heart and they put them out into the world and they're like I'm going to give this a shot.

Kyle Scheele: 46:59

You absolutely, if you're listening to this podcast, you have things that you have thought, oh, it'd be cool if this happened and you can get to the end of your life and die and have never tried that. Or you can go like I'm going to give it a shot and maybe it'll work out. Maybe it won't, but the more that you do that, you build this muscle of going. I'm a person who can affect change. I'm a person who brings things into the world. I'm a person who tries things, and that makes your life more interesting. It connects you with other people. It just makes the world better. So if you've been your whole life, however old, you are thinking I'm not really a creative person. Stop saying that and start thinking about, like, well, what's a small step that I could take today to make this product a little bit better or this system a little bit more efficient, or whatever it is, and then just take a small step towards that and see what happens.

Jacki Lutz: 47:42

Love that. What about you, Brian?

Brian Matthias: 47:44

I think for us in this industry, it's find ways to enable creativity. If you manage a team or you're leading people, create ways and opportunities for you to have brainstorming sessions or just everyone to feel safe that they can give their most crazy ideas where they can. You can tell them shoot for the stars. But hey, we'll provide a little bit of gravity to that situation.

Jacki Lutz: 48:09

And.

Brian Matthias: 48:09

I think those opportunities showing up more will help our industry.

Jacki Lutz: 48:13

Yeah, I think like celebrating them, even if the idea isn't quite finished, but still like celebrating the people that are bringing them to the table.

Kyle Scheele: 48:23

Absolutely. And celebrating people, yeah, just for bringing them to the table. Henry Ford had this thing where he said that he told his managers not to keep track of ideas that didn't work, because he didn't want to have a list of things that they had tried and failed at. Because he's like, well, then people are going to say, hey, we tried that and it didn't work. He goes I want people. Maybe someone five years, 10 years from now is going to solve that problem, and if we keep this giant record of failures, that doesn't help. What we want to do is celebrate when people win and celebrate when people try and bring ideas to the table, because those are the inputs that end up with creative outputs.

Jacki Lutz: 48:54

I love that you just mentioned Henry Ford, because I was thinking during this conversation I'm like we're. You know, we're part of the auto industry and the automobile at one point was an insane idea. Yeah, and think about like where it came from, like even just like a carriage without horses yeah, what yeah?

Jacki Lutz: 49:11

that's like a waymo back then exactly right, like exactly so it's just kind of cool, like, yeah, crazy ideas can turn into a whole industry. And in mine I think you know one of the things like in my most creative ideas, the thing that's always limited me is looking around, you start to do research, start to see like what else is out there. You know similar, similar to your idea, and you see like, oh, someone's already doing it, cross that one off the list, you know.

Jacki Lutz: 49:35

And it just kind of like feels like you're just crossing things, like you have these ideas, but I think when I started stepping out and just doing it anyway, like yeah, someone's already doing it, but I could do it in my own way- you know, and that's going to develop into something else and I can put my own experiences and my own personality and my own strengths towards the same thing that somebody else is already doing, and it's going to end up being a different product.

Kyle Scheele: 49:57

Yeah, and you're going to reach people that they know we didn't stop with Henry Ford. We didn't say well, we've got one guy making cars, that's all we need. Right Other people made different cars and even even making parts for those cars. There are people who make different. You can buy four different alternators for your car. Nobody stopped and said, well, no, we've got an alternator Like. There's a market out there for that and other people might resonate with your company more than they resonate with another.

Jacki Lutz: 50:18

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys so much for taking the time to do this. I loved this conversation. I'm super inspired.

Kyle Scheele: 50:25

Absolutely, it was great. Yeah, absolutely, it was great, yeah. Thanks so much.

Jacki Lutz: 50:28

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care On Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode, and don't forget to leave us a rating and review. It helps others discover our show. Auto Care On Air is proud to be a production of the Auto Care Association, dedicated to advancing the auto care industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives, visit autocareorg.