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Tina Hubbard, President and CEO, HDA Truck Pride

• Auto Care Association • Season 1 • Episode 44

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Humor as a strategic weapon. Hands-on learning as a competitive advantage. The unstoppable drive to succeed in spaces where you're told you don't belong. These are just a few elements of Tina Hubbard's extraordinary journey from being the first female heavy-duty sales rep at Federal Mogul to her current role as CEO and President of HDA Truck Pride.

Along with host Behzad Rassuli, Tina takes us behind the scenes of a career spanning over three decades in the male-dominated heavy-duty trucking industry. With refreshing candor, she shares how she used quick wit to defuse tension in boardrooms and negotiation tables—turning potential confrontation into productive conversation. "I use humor as to not be extremely rude," she explains with characteristic directness, revealing how this approach became her signature leadership style.

What truly sets Tina's story apart is her relentless pursuit of knowledge. Early in her career, she took the remarkable step of asking a customer if she could work in their engine rebuild shop to better understand the products she was selling. "I don't even know what they do. I don't know where they go," she admits about the engine components she was tasked with selling. This hunger to learn through hands-on experience became the foundation for her success and the first phase of her personal philosophy: "learn it, earn it, return it."

Now in the "return it" phase of her career, Tina focuses on championing others, particularly women in the industry. She recounts her efforts to highlight the accomplishments of Bonnie Greenwood, a female diesel technician who won second place in a prestigious competition but received minimal recognition. This advocacy work extends to the industry as a whole, as she fights for right to repair legislation and reminds everyone of the essential nature of trucking with the powerful motto: "If you bought it, a truck brought it."

Whether you're fascinated by stories of breaking barriers, seeking insights on authentic leadership, or simply want to understand the backbone of our supply chain, Tina's perspective offers valuable lessons that extend far beyond the trucking industry.

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Tina Hubbard:

Are you going to get a personality before this or after this?

Behzad Rassuli:

I was planning on going to. There's a local personality store. I try to shop local.

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, that's good.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, Small business, Small businesses. And you know you don't get like, you don't get the cookie cutter personalities, but sometimes they're a little.

Tina Hubbard:

It's better if you have your own.

Behzad Rassuli:

Niche, yeah, yeah, but then it's going to be like one of those oh you're, you got one of those new edgy, trendy personalities, you know, and it's not everyone, not for everyone, and then that's kind of been my edge.

Tina Hubbard:

Thing.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, like I've already had the one, that doesn't work for everyone, so I'm trying to find a different one.

Tina Hubbard:

Oh man, it'd be so funny if I didn't get that. I got a recognition. I'd say, and I said, yeah, people say oh, congratulations. And I don't respond. Well, because I'm like okay, thank you. And he said get over yourself, it's not about you, it's about the company and you just represent it. So I'm like, okay, get over myself. So that makes it a little easier for me.

Behzad Rassuli:

Did that help.

Tina Hubbard:

Yes.

Behzad Rassuli:

You know, one thing I've noticed about you and it's probably the first thing I noticed about you is that whenever we meet or you know, like when we get introduced, say we're in a meeting or we're, you know, we're, uh, a board meeting or at the same same event, and we run into each other, there's always like a quip. First it's like a laugh, a joke, some references, something that just happened earlier with with humor, and then that same thing comes up whenever there's a tense moment. You're also on the auto care board of directors. Whenever there's a tense moment, you're also on the auto care board of directors. Whenever there's a tense moment in a meeting or no one's talking or something, humor is kind of like your wedge into, like a introduction, also through like the tense barrier of a conversation or negotiation. Do you know that? Where does that come from?

Tina Hubbard:

Growing up, I always wanted to be in entertainment. I thought I wanted to be a rock cat.

Behzad Rassuli:

A dancer.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, so I'm not tall enough and a lot of other things. Don't let me get there. But then I said I just want people to not feel the burden and the weight of the everyday life like live a little, be happy. So I think that making light of something either lightens a mood, makes people not think you know stress about things, and they generally will respond better or make them laugh. Just laugh a little bit about life. Don't get me wrong, I'm very serious about my job and whatnot. But yeah, if there's a lull or friction, the humor is going to come out oh, let's just move past this and just all lighten up.

Behzad Rassuli:

You use it to jostle the conversation, to kind of like break the tension, and then you almost push for an answer faster. Does that ring true? And then also, where did you learn that technique?

Tina Hubbard:

I got it at a technique store.

Behzad Rassuli:

No, it's the one it's like a co-share with a personality store.

Tina Hubbard:

Exactly, yeah, we might run into each other later. So when I take things very seriously, sometimes what I want to say like shut the hell up, we've heard enough, let's, let's move on. So I use humor as to not be so extremely rude, which is, if there wasn't a filter, probably what would come out. So take a lighthearted attitude instead of hardcore.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah. So rather than calling out with hostility like how absurd or unnecessary the situation is, you turn it into you're like this is nonsense and you make a nonsensical joke yes, and then move on. Yeah, I think it's productive, it's. I mean and I don't know if you, uniquely, have found a way to pull that off, but not, I don't know if I could pull it off. You know, if I could be in a tense negotiation and then just throw a joke out there, I think people would probably just be like okay, well, we're done with the conversation.

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, trust me, I've, you know, failed, gotten burned a couple of times, but that's still, I guess, just my go-to thing.

Behzad Rassuli:

Do you remember a time that it failed?

Tina Hubbard:

In a team meeting that we had on a Friday call and I tried to use humor and I didn't quite choose the right use of words for what I should have said, and I was afterwards I kept thinking why did I say that that was so stupid, you know. But everyone just kind of like, oh, she's the boss, We'll just pretend like that didn't happen do you?

Behzad Rassuli:

how do you react to that? Do you do you like go back and apologize or do you just kind of like course correct, going forward and like let the awkwardness sit, you know, and you're just like that, I just won't do that. Or do you try to address and be like I didn't mean it, like that?

Tina Hubbard:

I try to address it okay. But yeah, I can't say that I always have, but I think you know years and years of you know. Now that you say that, I think back to some of the meetings I was in at Federal Mogul and I was the only woman, or one of only a handful of women, and most of the men didn't know how to act or respond in certain settings. So we'd be in a meeting.

Tina Hubbard:

I can remember us in a meeting about an oil bath seal. We were going to launch a new version of the national oil bath seal and there was a difference of opinion between one of the men and one of the women at the plant and it was starting to get heated and I was like boy, we got to break this somehow right, heated. And I was like boy, we got to break this somehow right. And that may have been the first time I ever did it, because I thought this is going to get ugly. We have a cross-functional team of people that have just turned dysfunctional, so we got to back everybody up, get back to your respective corners if we're going to get anywhere and set some new ground rules.

Behzad Rassuli:

What was your position relative to the people who were having the debate?

Tina Hubbard:

Quite frankly, it's an oil bath seal. I think it was. What was the color of the box?

Behzad Rassuli:

It doesn't even matter if it was like VPs or whatever You're kind of like. We're talking about an oil bath seal.

Tina Hubbard:

Yes, the part numbering the color of the box, something. And I'm like, oh, oh, my God, keep it simple. Like why are we going to get in an all out brawl about what this is going to be?

Behzad Rassuli:

Did it work.

Tina Hubbard:

Everybody backed up, everybody kind of took a breath. I'm like, in the scheme of life, how important is this? We don't want to get it wrong, but we don't need to be arguing about it.

Behzad Rassuli:

It's so true. It's because it's so hard to find a way to reframe people in the middle of that moment where it's like just their ego defending the thing that they just said and they've completely lost context of the point of what you're doing. Like getting a product to market and a very like somewhat generic product, not sexy product. So defense isn't about how amazing the product is, it's about the fact that you said it and you want your opinion to be the like, the accepted outcome. Does that sound right? Exactly, yeah. So you just kind of like point out, you just remind everyone through humor that it's not about you, it's about the, it's about the. Let's remember, it's about an oil seal.

Tina Hubbard:

That's been one of my phrases, um, when I went to work for HGA truck pride. So Don Raimondo and I had worked together for quite a few years prior to that and we were in the middle of a discussion and I said newsflash, we sell truck parts. We're not solving world peace, we're not curing cancer. Let's bring it back down a couple notches right and get back to the point at hand. And when you kind of frame it in and don't get me wrong, I love the trucking industry, absolutely very passionate about it, but sometimes we get a little out of hand and we do have to bring it back down to say what's relevant here, what do we need to focus on?

Behzad Rassuli:

This is probably a good moment to introduce you. You're Tina Hubbard, you're CEO and president of HDA Truck Pride and you've been in that role since 2021, 2020?.

Tina Hubbard:

COVID 2020.

Behzad Rassuli:

2020. You mentioned Federal Mogul a minute ago, so if you don't mind, I would love to kind of back up and talk about your entrance into the industry, your time in the industry and some of your roles. And then I mean, I guess, broadly, I'm genuinely curious about how you fell into the heavy duty truck parts space and, as you just said, you're incredibly passionate about it. Is that something you're, like your, your family was into? Is that something that you discovered as a kid or is it just a job that you ran into and you found, you know, like an attachment to? So I want to talk about that. But maybe the first question I have about um, about your career, I want to start with the present.

Behzad Rassuli:

You just came from Atlanta where you won the Women in Auto Care Lifetime Achievement Award. When I heard that, I try, you know, in our roles we do a lot of negotiating and kind of consensus building and I think a big part of that is like empathy and trying to understand where the other person's coming from. So for some reason, when I heard that you were winning the lifetime achievement award, I was trying to think of how impressive that is and to try to capture how impressive that is, I tried to put myself in your shoes and I was like what would it be like to win a lifetime achievement award? What would be my lifetime achievements that won me this award? And I came up with an empty basket. So I don't know if you did that exercise personally, but when you think about that, um, when you think about that moment, what, what were some of the achievements that came to mind kind of immediately? Or maybe the, the accomplishments in your career that you felt led you to that?

Tina Hubbard:

So let's start with the story about Brian Funke telling me get over yourself. It's not about you, it's about the company and you represent the company and you're in front of the industry, for the company and for the industry itself, in front of the industry, for the company and for the industry itself. But when Missy sent me the email, I read it three or four, maybe even five times and said I typed back to her are you kidding me? Are you sure this was supposed to come to me? I was in shock and then I responded with I'm crying right now and as I thought about it over the next day or two, I said lifetime exactly what you did. Lifetime. What did I do in my lifetime? Oh, it's just a really nice way of calling me old, like you have. I think the criteria was you had to be in the industry for 20 years or more and I'm like, oh, 35.

Behzad Rassuli:

That's old, you know that's a defense mechanism. What? Okay, we've got that out of the way.

Tina Hubbard:

There's the humor.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, and I'm so happy we called it out in the beginning because it's like a deflection but you have to have. You did give a speech there and I saw I wasn't able to attend the conference but I saw feedback and I've spoken with a number of people there and they're all really moved by what you said and I'm not going to ask you to kind of repeat that here. But clearly you did reflect on some lifetime achievements and I would love to know kind of what were some of the things that you oriented around or recognized landed you in a position to be awarded such an honor so I, you know, if I go all the way back and say I it's not like my family.

Tina Hubbard:

I didn't grow up in the industry. No one in my family. I didn't know what aftermarket was, um, automotive side, truck side, it doesn't matter, no one was in the industry. But I was the first female heavy-duty sales rep at Federal Mogul and I guess that kind of started everything. I just had this passion when I met the customers on the heavy-duty side of the industry. It was still a relationship. It still is a relationship driven industry on the automotive side much less so of that, and on the heavy duty side everyone. Either they were going to make an absolute mockery of you because you're a girl and don't step foot in their world, or I think the phrase I heard the most going through this industry, even still to this day, is you remind me of my daughter.

Behzad Rassuli:

That's what you heard, a lot.

Tina Hubbard:

A lot as a representative for a company Growing up in this industry and I would. I'd take that and use it to my advantage to help me learn Right. So the gentleman that owned the largest engine rebuild shop in Louisville, kentucky. I went to him and said I have a huge favor to ask Can I work in your rebuild shop and work side by side with these guys? Because I don't really know what an engine bearing does. I don't know the stuff that I'm selling. I don't know about pistons. It would help me understand the products and it would help me see what their issues are when they're rebuilding an engine.

Behzad Rassuli:

Wait, I'm sorry. So you were working at Federal Mogul.

Tina Hubbard:

Mm-hmm. Selling engine bearings to Napa stores.

Behzad Rassuli:

But then you gave yourself a kind of a second job by working in a shop.

Tina Hubbard:

So one of my customers had an engine rebuild shop and I said you know, if I could tear down an engine and learn what all these components are, it will help me understand the products I'm selling and it will help me understand the problems and the issues that the guy's rebuilding every day run into, and is there something we could do to fix them?

Behzad Rassuli:

Is that a common trait of people that you know that they to understand what they're working on or what they're selling, that they actually get involved with the its application in the world.

Tina Hubbard:

Probably not. I learned better hands on seeing, touching, feeling, doing, and so to understand what are these parts I'm selling? I don't. I don't even know what they do. I don't know where they go. How complicated is it? Undersize, oversize. I didn't know what that was, so I learned much better by doing, but in doing so, you know they had my back forever if I ever needed anything.

Behzad Rassuli:

Where did that come from? Had my back forever if I ever needed anything. Where did that come from? Where did it come from that you took it upon yourself to just go ask a customer. Show me how this thing works in real life. I mean, does it just struck you on the job? You're like I don't know what this does, I want to go figure it out. Or when you were growing up, did you have somebody kind of coach you into? The best way to learn how something works is to kind of take it apart or see how it's used.

Tina Hubbard:

I didn't do that growing up. It was, you know, there weren't really any females in the industry barely any. So it wasn't like you could call someone or ask someone to mentor you, or how'd you pave the road, or all I knew was I'm supposed to sell engine bearings and friction bearings and stuff to do with pistons and I don't know what it is. So for me to be able to sell it or talk intelligently about it, I need to understand it, and the best way for me to understand was to actually do it, to hands-on, get in there and do it. And when the gentleman said, you remind me of my daughter. I hope that someone would help her. And yes, you can absolutely come and work.

Behzad Rassuli:

What was appealing to you about the industry? If you said you know you're getting feedback like that, you said there aren't very many women. At the time I imagine you didn't have a ton of role models or people that were like, hey, this is, you know, a great industry for you to get into. What was the appeal? It sounds like you almost picked the hard path on purpose.

Tina Hubbard:

And I don't know that. I would say back then that I picked it on purpose. So I, you know, I took the job with Federal Mogul to have a job. Right, I get out of college and I thought I was going to go get my master's. And when I got a job offer from Federal Mogul my dad was like oh no, no, no, yeah, take the job. You're not going to come back and live off a daddy's dime. Take the job. When you figure out what you like in life and what you want to be when you grow up, then if you want to go get your master's degree, go do that.

Tina Hubbard:

So I took the job, really not having a clue what Federal Mogul did and, like I said, I learned better by doing it hands-on. But when I first started with the company, they would hire like 20 different college recruits from small liberal arts colleges near that southeastern Michigan area. So they hired 20 of us and what they do is they give you a Napa sales territory or give you an automotive sales territory and here go, have fun, go sell. And I said I'm 21. You're going to give me a company car, reimburse my expenses, a Rand McNally map and go send me to the Wolves and say here go, and I don't even know what we sell. So what if we didn't just send me out and we actually trained me on what we did? So I had some additional training and in that time I was very fortunate I got to work with one of our seasoned sales reps in industrial sales, get an idea what they did, and then heavy duty sales rep. They were both local to the Detroit area and I went out with this gentleman for three days and I'm like these customers are great Like this doesn't. It doesn't feel like work, it feels like a relationship, it feels like they're doing things because they trust this gentleman. And that's really cool.

Tina Hubbard:

I never learned about that in a textbook in college and each day as I worked with them I said this is fantastic, this is what I want. I mean I'll do whatever I need to do to work my way up to get there, because it was considered like Napa sales was entry level. And then you do something else and you move up to be a heavy duty sales rep. And I came back from working with him, I told our national sales manager, bob Show. I said I found my passion, I know what I want to do I want to be in heavy duty sales? He said back up I have two daughters of my own. This industry is disgusting. I would never put them in it. There's no way in hell I'm going to let someone like you go into heavy duty. I'm not doing it. And that probably did spark a flame that said, hmm, challenge on, let's go. What do I need to do to prove why I want to be in this industry?

Behzad Rassuli:

I don't want to just say it seems like you're outright competitive, but you clearly have a kind of self-starting attitude. You will go train yourself. You will tell the manager or the leadership of your organization what you want to do. You will pursue opportunities for yourself. That self-starting had to have come from somewhere. I don't know if you were born with it, or maybe you were just. What was your family like growing up? Did you have like a lot of siblings or cousins or One brother, a lot of cousins nearby me.

Behzad Rassuli:

Was it were you close with them?

Tina Hubbard:

Yes.

Behzad Rassuli:

Was there a lot of like you know, like rough and tumble kind of you know, sorting it out with one another?

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, and all boys. I was eight when my first girl cousin was born. To save me from the boys.

Behzad Rassuli:

So that environment is not intimidating to you at all, because you were familiar with it growing up.

Tina Hubbard:

Yes.

Behzad Rassuli:

And you were confident. You, you're familiar. You were familiar with it growing up. Yes, and you were confident. It seems like you were just confident moving from this one environment of being around all boys and cousins you know to to being in the professional space. But it's not, it's not exactly the same yeah so um, did, did that. Uh, you said it was your manager that said I don't want you to take on that role. Was he right? It's like it's not something, but slowly but surely you get through them, right.

Tina Hubbard:

Build trust and respect with the customers, and I think we were talking earlier about cell phones. And when I got the job, when I finally got that job for heavy duty, it was April 1st of all things, April Fool's Day.

Tina Hubbard:

And they said hey, if you want to go on a heavy duty, you should do that. I said, oh well, we'll try to make sure that this isn't a joke. But the first thing I did when I got that job was to buy my first car phone. It was a bag, right. Little did I know that it only works near major metropolitan areas and I had all of Kentucky, Indiana, part of Ohio, so I'd get about 30 miles outside of Lexington and it wouldn't work. So it does you no good in Hazard or Prestonsburg or Pikeville, or you get out east to where perhaps you have a little bit more questionable characters out there.

Behzad Rassuli:

So I think you're alluding to like feeling like there are moments where you got in over your head. Were there. Were there any specific moments that you remember where you regretted your decision or you felt like, okay, you know what Proved enough, I don't need to keep doing this?

Tina Hubbard:

No none. I? I don't remember any time where I said I'm done with it.

Behzad Rassuli:

I don't mean to keep harping on this, but these may just seem like standard operating procedure for you Just endurance and grit, self-starting, to find challenges and just go conquer them. But they're not common traits. There are a lot of people who look for reasons to quit, reasons to stop doing things, barriers in their way, to say, well, got here, but there's nowhere to go past this, nowhere to go past this. And if I can do anyone a service through this conversation, it would be to find a way to extract from you the how that you've kind of uncovered, that you see these roadblocks or barriers or challenges. Or you find yourself in some remote part of Kentucky with no cell phone service and, you know, selling heavy duty truck parts. I can't even imagine some of the stuff you've seen. You can share them if you want, but and then you're just like, no, that was Tuesday, let's go to Wednesday. Do you have a way of coaching that, those attributes or those traits in not just the next generation but just people who exhibit, you know, limits or timidness or whatnot?

Tina Hubbard:

just another day, let's go there. Certainly were you know down points and things that I felt badly about, and I always was taught you learn from your mistakes. So wins are great and I always would strive for the win. But when you didn't or when something went wrong, it was peel back that onion and figure out what you did and next time you do it, do it differently. One of the things onion and figure out what you did and next time you do it, do it differently.

Tina Hubbard:

One of the things I remember being in heavy duty sales is I would find some little nugget of information that would impress these people.

Tina Hubbard:

Back then you could look at a drive axle of a truck and by the end plate of that drive axle you could know was it an Eaton, a Dana, a Rockwell?

Tina Hubbard:

And so I would go into a shop and we were going to talk about oil bath seals and it's not the most exciting thing for any fleet maintenance manager. But we'd walk in and I'd look at their trucks and I'd say, oh well, you're running all Eatons, huh, they'd all look at each other like, oh my God, she's brilliant, it's not that hard, but I'd take any little nugget I could find to earn their hey, she's not joking around, she must know what she's doing. And this sounds terrible, but sometimes I'd be like hey, if that's what it takes to get the conversation to let them understand I'm serious about what I'm doing and serious about what I'm selling and talking about to them. I just made this everlasting wonderful first impression on them and if you can keep going with that knowledge or information that you're trying to share with them, they appreciate it. I mean, you're there to help make their fleet better, to help make their maintenance practices better.

Behzad Rassuli:

So there are two ingredients there. There's learning, constant learning and education, but then there's the the kind of like confidence to to speak and use it in a situation where some people might not feel like they're. You know their voices needed or accepted, are going to be received. Well, let's talk about the first one, the learning part. Uh, does that like, do you coach people into that technique of yours? Like know more than the next person?

Tina Hubbard:

I always felt as a female, in a male-dominated industry I would do better. I put that burden upon myself.

Tina Hubbard:

Nobody said to me you need to go learn more than the guys know, I just felt I needed to and make sure that nothing ever came up that could blindside Not nothing ever. But you want to minimize the opportunities for someone to blindside you. So when we took on SignalStat Lighting and we bought the Dietz Lighting Company, we learned about, like I never knew, something was called a cab marker, nor did I care before that. So we learned about the products we were going to sell. But then when I realized it really is federally regulated and FMVSS 108 is a federal motor vehicle standards, that that governed what you had to have as a minimum criteria, well now I'm going to go read about it right so that if someone wants to question, do you have to have that light or is it optional? Does it have to work or not, I could speak intelligently about it and I could reference back something.

Tina Hubbard:

When we took on a couple lines, we didn't have brake valves, but brake valves immediately impacted our products. So I went to a Bendix air brake class because I didn't know anything about it. But I knew if you had a problem further upstream it was going to have a negative impact on our product line and people would ask questions and I guess it was a burden I put upon myself to know more, and I guess it was you know. Curiosity got the best to know more, and I guess it was you know, curiosity got the best of me.

Behzad Rassuli:

So okay, so that's the learning part. What about the using your knowledge or kind of like broaching the subjects or speaking you know, and promoting that's? That's a different skill set. Right, there are a lot of people who know things and then they just sit quiet in meetings and they never share their opinion. Or you know they should pick up the phone and call the customer or a member, and they're just shy about it. Right, you've clearly mastered that and conquered that. You're here in Washington DC the day before you're going to go on the hill and fight for your entire industry. So I don't imagine this is a challenge for you, but it's something that you've probably had to coach other people into getting over or mastering. How do you go about doing that?

Tina Hubbard:

trying to help someone through something or coach them, mentor them, whatever you want to call it. My first thing is always to be genuine. Don't be someone you're not. People are going to see right through it. Right, you're not going to be comfortable, you're not going to have passion about it. So always be yourself, be genuine.

Tina Hubbard:

And when you have the phrase to praise in public and criticize in private, so if you're in a meeting and you're not comfortable with something, the place to address it is generally in that moment in the meeting. But for goodness sake, make sure that once you leave the meeting, if you have an issue with something, you go directly to that person immediately following, or go to someone else to ask for their assistance, to talk to the person. But if the criticize in private is your philosophy of why you're not saying something or you're afraid of what might trickle downhill later on, you're afraid of what might trickle downhill later on. So I always encourage people to be true to their self and genuine. And it's not always productive to, we'll say, create a scene in a certain setting. It all depends on you know what is the issue at hand. But certainly if you're not going to say it in the meeting, which is the place where you should then immediately following. That is where you should address the topic.

Behzad Rassuli:

As you've moved up in leadership roles in your career, did you find yourself in moments knowing that there's probably more to be said from the room and creating an opportunity for the person to speak, or asking them if they have something, or knowing that they have something to share and just finding a way to get it out of them?

Tina Hubbard:

Yes, absolutely, and making sure and it's both sides right, because a lot of times the person that may have offended you or created the situation that makes you uncomfortable most likely not all the time, but most likely doesn't realize they did it, doesn't realize it was offensive, doesn't right? They have no idea. So, giving an open forum for people to speak about what the situation is. Oh, hey, bezod, I see that perhaps you have something you want to share with the group, or I may try to read what's on your mind and say try to speak for you a bit first to get the conversation going, so that if then you want to step in and be the next person to talk about it, you have that floor and you know that you're not alone on an island.

Behzad Rassuli:

Gosh, who was I. There was a podcast that I listened to with this behavioral psychologist and he said exactly that. Actually, he said a tactic I use to get somebody to talk is I don't ask them a question, I make a statement and they pick which way. The statement is either correct or it's like outlandish. But I guess our human psychology like you want to correct the statement or share your thoughts that make that you're like no, no, that's not true, that's not true at all, you know. And so I think that's like a proven tactic to, rather than just ask if there are any questions in the room, kind of make a statement towards a person and then see how they field that.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, so you find that to work, huh.

Tina Hubbard:

Yes.

Behzad Rassuli:

So you were in sales at Federal Mogul. What was your first leadership role?

Tina Hubbard:

your first leadership role. I was sent to Jacksonville, alabama, to Federal Mogul's largest packaging and distribution center, jacksonville, alabama. So compared to Rochester, new York, where I grew up, or Michigan, where I went to school not a thriving metropolis, in fact, the largest employer was Federal Mogul but I was sent down there and I was a first ship supervisor for packaging and receiving, and I guess this would be the second time the learning piece comes up, because that's, quite frankly, learning is something I believe just should happen all the time your entire life. So I had packaging and receiving and everybody that worked for me was on tow motors all the time. Could have been a sit down fork truck that you're going to unload stuff out of the trailer that just showed up. Could be a man aboard that lifts you up and you got to pick parts out of something five levels high. A man aboard that lifts you up and you got to pick parts out of something five levels high.

Tina Hubbard:

And I quickly realized I don't know how to drive these and I don't know what challenges my employees are facing by having to drive these. So I was probably three or four weeks into the job and said, okay, who's the tow motor trainer? Train me on all this equipment that we drive. I want to. I might not be good, but I'm. I'm gonna learn how to drive them all and I'm gonna do what you guys do for a day, and I'll do what bezod's job is for part of today, and I'll do what stacy's job is for part of the day and I'm, I'm gonna learn all these things. So I have a better understanding of it and it gained a lot of respect. I think I ran over a couple of things when I was getting two of my tow motor licenses, but but through those mistakes you learn how to coach somebody, what to avoid.

Behzad Rassuli:

Like hey, don't run over this thing and don't ask me how. I know how.

Tina Hubbard:

Don't ask at all. We even had a yard dog out on the lot, so if we had to back trailers up to the dock, you had to back the yard dog up to the trailer and then back the trailer up to the dock door. And I did it and we'll end that story right there.

Behzad Rassuli:

Why no one's going to hear this.

Tina Hubbard:

It's just you and me talking I don't know how many bricks or how much. We ripped the pad off the side of the dock but I did it, that's all that matters.

Behzad Rassuli:

That matters, it's okay. I mean, you got to make those mistakes. It's great, it's great that you're sharing that. So other people somebody's going to hear this and be like, oh my god, I did that too. I don't know if it makes it okay to confess it. I think just kind of move on with your day, right. So, um, when did? Was there a moment in your kind of career progression where you thought this is probably it. You know like I'm going to max out here, I'm going to manage this. You know this location or this division, or never.

Tina Hubbard:

I did think that and I have a phrase, a common saying that I use learn it, earn it, return it. So, and the learn it I don't think ever stops Right, but at some point you're sitting there going. I've learned all these things. I've learned all these skills. I've learned product information. I've learned about people. I need to earn some money as a single mom. You need some money, right?

Tina Hubbard:

And there came a time where I said, unfortunately, federal Mogul and I are going to have to part ways because we see a difference in what that should be. And I left and went to Axel Tech and I stayed there for three years and I learned no offense to anybody, but private equity and I are probably not going to be very good together. No-transcript. And I believe my words were exactly why in the hell would you do that? Right? And he said I'm going to end up taking over for Bierman and I'm going to be the president of heavy duty America. I said, well, you're going to have to gut that whole team because they're on. And I had commentary about everything and everyone You'd known HDA.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, I used to call on them. They were my customer and he said well, that's probably why we're on the phone right now, Tina, oh huh. And the timing was just amazing, because I was just starting to think I know how I got myself into this position at Axel Tech. It was a fantastic company, but it really just was not my style. And how am I going to get back to the traditional heavy duty that was near and dear to my heart? And that's when I went back?

Behzad Rassuli:

What was the scene you walked into, what was the role you had there when you got, when you joined?

Tina Hubbard:

So by the time I joined, it was like September of 2010. So Heavy Duty America and Truck Pride were going to merge, so two of the buying groups were going to come together as one. Nobody acquired anybody else, it was just a flat out merger. So when I came in, I was director of sales and marketing, which they never had had before either side. So that was totally new for either of them and for them together as one.

Behzad Rassuli:

When you joined, were you, was your thought that this is not again like, this is not what I want it to be, or do you think that this is somewhere I could? I could run and grow in?

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, I definitely thought I could grow there.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, we're in your earn it phase now, right?

Tina Hubbard:

Yes, we're in the earn it phase, never thinking I would be CEO, but I came in and said this is where I belong, this is my passion, these are my people. And what do we need to do? We need to come up with a new name, a new brand, new color scheme. Well, we didn't come up with a new color scheme, but we've got to do all these things, we've got to help grow the businesses, et cetera but never thought about the CEO position. I was more sales, marketing and project management, so how?

Behzad Rassuli:

did that how? So I don't want to fast forward so quickly through all of your experience at HDA Truck Pride, but you know the path from director to CEO is not one that everyone makes. It's not the path for everyone. What was the moment that you kind of knew that not only like I could be CEO here?

Tina Hubbard:

I want to be CEO here like do I could be CEO here? I want to be CEO here. I think one of the things you know. I came into sales and marketing and at one point I took over as product manager, vice president of product management. Which, how the hell did that happen?

Behzad Rassuli:

and so I mean how did that happen? One of the guys left and you, just, you were just, you knew enough about it that you're like I can do this.

Tina Hubbard:

Somebody else said you know, I'll take it, and struggled with it and I said, oh my God, we, we need to find somebody that does this, but in the meantime, just give it to me Like we need to. Just it needs to keep going Right, stop smashing it into brick walls and and keep the momentum going.

Behzad Rassuli:

How hard was the merging of the two organizations, HDA and Truck Pride? You know, I don't. I think integration is where a lot of, a lot of mergers collapse. Is this like a typical merger or is it kind of more of just like an asset combination? What did it look like? Risks, obviously that there would be.

Tina Hubbard:

What certainly helped is geographically when you looked at the Heavy Duty America members and the Truck Pride members, there was very little overlap. There was Fresno, california, where there were two people on top of each other, okay, and there was the Bermuda Triangle. I call it so. It was the Philadelphia, New York was the Bermuda Triangle, I call it so. It was the Philadelphia New York, new Jersey area, where, like across the street from each other, right, not even in the next zip code, but literally across the street or just up the street. So, with a handful of those exceptions, it was easy to sell people on how consolidation is happening everywhere in the industry. And you know, you don't, you don't have anybody else in your area. This will make the two organizations as one stronger.

Tina Hubbard:

There's a lot of synergy between the two companies and, quite honestly, is if you look way back to where all these began, they were buying groups, right? So how are the suppliers looking at you guys? Well, if you're both losing members and you're losing volume with them at some point, if you lose enough, are they all going to want to still do business with you and keep their contracts intact? So you've got to figure out ways to keep growing. So certainly the geographics helped tremendously. We had a couple of areas where we had to, you know, smooth things out and help them understand the bigger picture. But there was the merger was even though on the outside they both look like quote unquote heavy duty buying groups, behind the scenes they're about as polar opposite as you could get between two groups. So that's when the Hatfields and the McCoys behind the scenes would fight Well, is central pay the right way or direct pay? Is this type of business development or this type of sales? What about a central warehouse? What about not? Behind the scenes, there was a lot of differences.

Behzad Rassuli:

How long did that take to kind of all sort out? And you're like one machine, or are you not yet?

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, you know, maybe a year, and the first six months were the hardest. So we had regional meetings. So we went around the US and Canada Chicago, philadelphia, dallas, toronto and everybody could come to a meeting and we'd sit down in smaller groups and talk about what does this mean, what are the benefits to you, what are the risks at stake, and have individual, one-on-one conversations with the different members that were there and they would get to meet each other. The funny thing is we assumed that if the closest meeting ground for you was Chicago, then all of the folks from the Chicago area would be at the meeting together and we'd get to see them in our direct. Well, that is not what happened, right? First person that signed up for Chicago that was from Chicago. The next guy goes I'm going to Toronto. The next guy says I'm going to Dallas. So they weren't all from the same geographic area. But having the one-on-one time certainly helped everybody get through it better and be more accepting of it.

Behzad Rassuli:

That was like the 2010 timeframe. You said you joined A few years in. You move into kind of product marketing. When did you get the indication or nod that maybe you're being considered for CEO?

Tina Hubbard:

So Don Raimondo was president and CEO at the time and he had been wanting to retire, and so when he finally was like, basically I don't know what your problem is and why you don't think you can do this, you can, I think my response was I know I can do it, I just don't want to. Why and that was his question you know, what are you afraid of? What would you concerned?

Behzad Rassuli:

about this be the first time in this entire career of yours we've been talking about that.

Tina Hubbard:

You said no, I don't know. No, well, and and I looked at it like I don't know no, said well, you should at least apply for it and let the board talk to you and see what happens. So I was very fortunate and they offered me the job, and the first thing that I talked about was now, what do you do? What's the first thing you need to do? We need your right and your left hand, and you need to have the right people that are helping you run the business. And then you got to figure out how to stop doing what you were doing which I still struggle with and start doing this Right.

Behzad Rassuli:

You get put in that position, you get the opportunity. You need your right and your left hand, and we're going to go execute. And then, by the way, here's a pandemic for you.

Tina Hubbard:

That was the best. So Don officially retired on May 1st of 2020. But on Friday, march 13th, when the pandemic came down and what they tell us all stay home for two weeks and we'll get past this, right. And we got into that first week and I I believe it was auto care I know it was auto care that we got the signal from that. We were deemed essential Right, so our industry could keep going, which was fantastic. And Don just looked at me and said I don't have a fucking clue how to run a company during a global pandemic. Good luck, kid. Thanks.

Behzad Rassuli:

Great coaching.

Tina Hubbard:

I don't know how to run a company when it's not a pandemic. So he, he was there to coach and help and you know, try to see are we supposed to go left or right? See, are we supposed to go left or right. But at that point he was slowly but surely shoving me into the position and bringing up topics like we need to think about cash flow, we need to think about how it's impacting our members, etc. So it was the merger or the transition. Learn, you know, learn by fire. I guess we had a whole plan of hey, in the first hundred days you should go meet face to face these suppliers, these members, these people in the industry. We didn't meet anybody face to face.

Behzad Rassuli:

Well, did you? How quickly did you guys adapt to like the remote world? Or were you in office at the time?

Tina Hubbard:

No, so we sent everybody home. We actually we were at a board meeting the first week of March and we came back and we immediately had to send our St Louis office home. So we're talking about employees that have been with us 20, 25, 35 years, who've never worked anywhere but in the office, and so they're going to go home and they have double computer screens in the office and they have a printer over in the corner and a fax yes, we still use fax machines back then, back then. So we had to arm them with the basic tools just to be able to let them work from home. And then our Brighton Michigan office got sent home after that, which many of the employees in Michigan travel quite a bit, so they had been accustomed to working when they weren't, you know, working remotely from a hotel, airport, whatever. So once we got the folks in St Louis, which was our biggest concern is how do we help them learn how to work from their home, which they've never had to do before?

Behzad Rassuli:

So where are you guys now? Did that change how you work as an organization, and did the organization stumble or did it accelerate through that transition?

Tina Hubbard:

I think everybody had some initial pains with everybody being remote. We've always had probably eight or 10 people remote. Our salespeople are remote. Once we were comfortable with how to help St Louis because that's our finance department. So how do you, how do you run your finance to you know what if your finance department doesn't know how to run? We actually Bezod. We had two ladies that came in the office every day just the two of them because we were still getting so much mail.

Tina Hubbard:

Oh, yeah, we were still getting so much mail oh yeah, invoices, payments, et cetera that somebody had to come in to open the mail and to do some of the processes on the equipment that was in that office. And we had part of our employees that were in our warehouse working too. So it was a difficult start. We all tried to be as patient as possible because we were all in this whole new situation and now that we're, you know, four or five years out of that, we have people for the most part we are in office.

Behzad Rassuli:

We have some people that will work from home one or two days a week. Did you end up visiting those 100 customers virtually or no?

Tina Hubbard:

No, because they didn't. Well, if I would call and wanted to talk, all they wanted to know about was how far apart? Where do they have to put the plexiglass to let their counter people stand? They got right. They could care less about Tina wanting to talk to them.

Behzad Rassuli:

They were like I'm just running my business and trying to figure out how to get by hey, can you write a letter so that my salespeople have a letter that tell them they're okay to be in a car Because you had Achievement Award? But you talked about learn it, earn it and return it? Are we in the return it phase now or are we kind of still in the earn it phase? I want to know how do you know you're transitioning between the phases and I want to learn about this a little bit more.

Tina Hubbard:

Okay, I am now in the return it phase. I would say it probably started before I took over as president and CEO, but certainly in this position that I'm in now very different than any of the jobs that I had had before, and my whole hope is that something I do inspires someone to try to come to the table, that they don't need to feel like they're alone on an island, because chances are we've seen it, we've done it, we've had it done to us. You know we. We understand you're not alone. Someone else can can understand what you're going through.

Tina Hubbard:

I guess the story that I'm most passionate about is transport topics is like a newspaper style publication, right, and the American Trucking Association comes out with it. So I was on the road. This would be the fall of 2022. And I came back from a trip and the magazine's on my desk because, for whatever reason, I didn't get electronically in my email and on the front page, whole front half of the page, is Philip from FedEx won first place at the SuperTech competition. So SuperTech is who's the best diesel engine technician in the country? Essentially right, and it's usually FedEx or Walmart, and FedEx doesn't goof around. They have an internal competition, so you have to be one of the five or 10 best technicians at FedEx, and then they'll let you go compete with everybody else.

Tina Hubbard:

So they first have their internal competition and then this is hardcore, like they're in it to win it.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah.

Tina Hubbard:

The end. So Philip's page is the whole front half and I'm like, oh yeah, surprise, surprise, fedex won again. Congratulations, philip, job well done. And as I'm thumbing through the magazine I get out my magnifying glass and there's like this one inch square picture and it's Bonnie Greenwood of FedEx wins second place. And it's like, it's like we're embarrassed about it. And I said why. I understand why he's got the front cover. Why am I four pages in? I understand why he's got the front cover. Why am I four pages in? We've got this little itty bitty picture of Bonnie here.

Tina Hubbard:

So I said, well, you know, it just happened last week. We'll give it a little bit of time and see who else picks this up. Nobody picked it up. And I thought you know I get what life was like for me 35 years ago if I were a female truck driver or a female diesel technician. I think that life is still like it was for me 35 years ago for them. You know that's I couldn't do it. God help us all If I was driving a truck or fixing a truck. Who knows what would happen. But I'm like I felt compelled. I said I got to get a hold of Bonnie. I want to tell her congratulations and let her know she's my superhero. I think she's fantastic and kudos to her and the least I could do is recognize her and extend my congratulations.

Tina Hubbard:

So I go through a course of phone calls. I start with George Aarons from ASE, who puts me to somebody who gets me to Cindy Barlow, and I finally get to talk to Bonnie. I said I just, you know, I just wanted to congratulate you. We're on the phone for a good 20 minutes and we're just chit-chatting. And I realize she's very articulate and I asked her how she got started and I get off the phone and I said not only is it a crying shame that her picture is a one inch square, but the rest of the industry and anybody female, male, it doesn't matter that wants to go after this type of career really needs to hear her story because the way her family was, you went to a four-year college and you read books and you got a degree and this is what you did and what Nobody would go to diesel tech school. I mean, that's unheard of Professional trades. So I did what anybody would do. I picked up the phone and I called Jessica Finnerty at AutoCare and I said hey, jess.

Behzad Rassuli:

That's always a reliable phone call.

Tina Hubbard:

I get. Hgaw is only like three months away. But you know what, if? What? If we could do this like a women's networking reception? And Robin Spitzky from Fort Gary wanted to do a women's networking reception, but this was like the cherry on the top that said we've got to do this. Oh, by the way, now I know who should speak at that reception and Jessica worked her magic and we had our first women's networking reception. It was HDW 2023. And Bonnie came. We sponsored her to come out. She did a couple of the educational sessions at HTW and she spoke at the women's reception and all these people came up to her afterwards and said hey, would you, would you present? You can come in person, you could do it, you know, virtually, but would you talk to our people so that they can hear all the opportunities there are? And I said you know I might quit my job and be your manager. That actually would be kind of fun.

Behzad Rassuli:

This is, this is all part of your return it phase. Yeah, yeah.

Tina Hubbard:

She, you know her story needed to be told and she's.

Behzad Rassuli:

She's done several things since then, but you light up when you talk about other people. Have you noticed that?

Tina Hubbard:

You, yeah, you said that.

Behzad Rassuli:

You don't notice it though.

Tina Hubbard:

I'm very. That's one of the things that inspires me to be able to bring the attention to somebody else and let people you know shine in their own way.

Behzad Rassuli:

As a leader. Do you do now lead by like, hey, this is the way we're going to go, or do you lead by trying to influence others and have them, kind of, you know, grow their idea or make it seem like there's their idea? Do you kind of lead from behind?

Tina Hubbard:

I would say the latter. Tina always has her opinions and brian funky and clint carter know what those are. But I outside of that I probably not that good in it sometimes, but I try to give the opportunity for the others so.

Behzad Rassuli:

So at your um, did you speak about bonnie? At your uh, at the Women in Auto Care talk, or your learn and earn and return phase, or what was the kind of like the recognition of your lifetime achievement at the talk? That's a great question, because I'm not sure what some starfish, and I see one on your lapel here. Maybe you can talk about that for a second because I would love to know what that is. I know what the logo above it's for, but, um, you know, in your, in your return it phase now, you are clearly having an impact on people. Somebody in that room will probably give that talk in the future, uh, and they will attribute their part of their success to having heard you and being inspired by you. So I think that there's, you know there's there's probably something there that there an impression you left on people in that room and I just want to make sure that we kind of capture that happened to give me the starfish poem and a starfish bracelet for Christmas just this last December.

Tina Hubbard:

So the starfish story is in a nutshell an older gentleman walks along the beach every day and one morning, after a storm, he notices someone in the distance and it's a young lady. And he finds that she's bending down and picking up starfish, one at a time, and throwing them back into the ocean. And he says young lady, what are you doing? And she said the sun's up, the tide's going out. If I don't throw these starfish back in, they'll die.

Tina Hubbard:

And his comment is there's miles and miles of beach with starfish everywhere. You can't possibly make a difference. She politely pauses, bends down and throws another starfish in and says if they so choose, they can wear that or spread it, you know, to other people. And I think, just like being here this week, it's to other people, other organizations, but it's also to the industry. So you know that's one of the reasons I'm here this week is to go to the Hill and talk about the right to repair, which, please, let us get through this this year. That would be fantastic, but it's, you know, it's key and critical to our industry and it's returning it to the industry. So return it could be a myriad of things.

Behzad Rassuli:

And you don't expect it. I mean, that's so, that's. I love that story and I love the message it sends, because you know a lot of people think about coming to Washington, washington DC, and going on the Hill and saying, like what am I going to change? Right, but you're throwing your starfish. You know you're doing your. You don't know you might have an impact on one person and that one person will carry that message and pass it along and, you know, have their impact on others and it's cascading effect.

Tina Hubbard:

Let's hope we get the right starfish, that we get this thing through, can we?

Behzad Rassuli:

take a detour just for a second and talk about the industry that you operate in. The heavy duty parts industry is, it's obviously like, critical to the economy, and I think that, um, if you asked any normal person who's not in this industry I just mean a consumer what their interaction with trucks are, it's there's one coming up their driveway with an amazon delivery or a package, um, or they're sitting in traffic and they're surrounded by a bunch of like 18 wheelers, but they probably don't think too much about the economy around keeping them on the road and how critical they are to infrastructure in the United States. So let's talk about I want to talk about this just a little bit and then maybe think about how you think about the future of trucking and what's coming next.

Tina Hubbard:

We are an absolutely essential piece of the economy and you're right, I mean, it's not glamorous. There's nothing sexy about the truck parts industry. People look at it and to your point, there's a truck coming at you. You're stuck with a truck. A truck's throwing snow on your car at you, you're stuck with a truck, a truck's throwing snow on your car. But, as my kids and all of my fantastic friends from college will tell you, if you bought it, a truck brought it. So your example of the Amazon truck right, it's an absolutely essential piece of the economy because everything flows through trucking Groceries, medical supplies, water, Amazon packages all of it goes through trucking. So, while we don't seem to be a glamorous industry, we're so needed when we come to DC to walk on the hill and talk about the right to repair and that passion stems from the industry but how absolutely critical it is.

Behzad Rassuli:

So your kids just say that naturally right, they just picked that up. They didn't like hear it all day long, every day all the time.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, yeah.

Behzad Rassuli:

That is. It's such an awesome line. Uh, and I know that we were um.

Tina Hubbard:

We had congressional baseball game.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, we were at the congressional baseball game auto care on deck and you came with that tagline. And it's so good, Did you just think of that?

Tina Hubbard:

An HGA truck prize line.

Behzad Rassuli:

HGA truck prize line yeah.

Tina Hubbard:

Do you want to know the truth?

Behzad Rassuli:

Yes.

Tina Hubbard:

Do I have to do the confession now?

Behzad Rassuli:

Depends on how bad it is.

Tina Hubbard:

That line was first used. Do you know who it was first used by?

Behzad Rassuli:

Not Tina Hubbard, one of your kids.

Tina Hubbard:

Well, wouldn't it be great. I know I'm just carrying on the legacy, but it was actually coined by Jimmy Hoffa.

Behzad Rassuli:

No kidding.

Tina Hubbard:

And it just is so perfect for us and that's our thing.

Behzad Rassuli:

How did you no pun intended, but like resurrected Jimmy Hoffa line, Like where'd you hear that?

Tina Hubbard:

You know, we.

Behzad Rassuli:

Is it just like floating around the trucking industry?

Tina Hubbard:

I'm making sure it floats around the trucking industry. Lisa Fauche, it just flows right off her tongue.

Behzad Rassuli:

Oh yeah, that's a it's. It's hugely impactful.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, that is Jimmy Hoffa. Give credit where credit is due. We brought it to the auto care on deck for the congressional baseball game. Then we brought the Bill costume when we went to the Hill. I guess that was almost two years ago now, a year and a half ago.

Tina Hubbard:

But anything that can help bring light to the rest of the world to understand the importance, because I myself you will not see me drive next to a semi I will make sure it's clear to get past them and get over. I won't ever just sit. I try not to ever just sit next to them. Right, I love them but I'm not going to be next to them. But most people think of that. They're like either that truck is in my way or that truck is spraying something on me, or you know, if they could just not be here and they kill people, which truly trucks don't kill people People making inappropriate moves, and going too fast is unfortunately one of the things that happens. But bringing to light the fact that we need these trucks to keep everything going going to build a house, going to get groceries, like I said, you got to have got to have trucks.

Behzad Rassuli:

I mean, I think you're, you know I'm your. Industry should be so grateful that you're advocating on their behalf and that line is so it's so sticky, you know it. Industry should be so grateful that you're advocating on their behalf and that line is so it's so sticky, you know, it's just like it resonates really quickly and it's really easy to attach the essential nature of trucking to the economy. As soon as you make that pitch, everyone's like oh yeah, I mean, obviously, without trucks nothing happens. Without trucks nothing happens. But that's like the right now issue is the right to repair issue because it's in, you know, it's at the state level. We've won in Massachusetts. There's a we're pushing for a federal initiative here. But outside of that essential nature the necessity of trucking, which I which I imagine we're going to resolve fairly quickly repairing trucks, what do you think about kind of like on a daily basis at work? Do you think about a lot of the conversation around electric trucks or automated trucking and platooning the future of trucks, or is it more near-term, operational stuff?

Tina Hubbard:

more near-term operational stuff. Right now it's more near-term operational stuff, but one of the things that I would say is concerning is that if you look at the trucking industry, we are a huge contributor to greenhouse gas issues and we need to figure out a way to have lower emissions. If we can get to zero emissions, that's the ideal. What some people don't realize is that it's very complicated with trucking, first of all, you want to make sure that it's safe, right, but do you have the infrastructure? We're not just talking battery, electric or diesel. You could do gas, you could do compressed natural gas, liquefied natural gas, you could do renewable diesel.

Tina Hubbard:

I mean, there's a myriad of options to look at when it comes to trucking, because most you know, there are types of trucking fleets that don't come back to home base every night. So if you have a long haul trucker that's out in the middle of Kansas and there's not a place for him to charge his electric truck, how's he going to get any further? Right? So you need to make sure it's safe, it's sustainable, it's maintainable and you have the infrastructure to support it. But there are several different options and I think we're just at the beginning of trying a bunch of different alternatives to be able to figure out what's going to be the best fit. Each vocation is going to be a little bit different. Line haul trucking is going to be different.

Behzad Rassuli:

And what's the right answer for that? You know, like a dump truck and probably they all need different types of energy systems or power plants. Are there leading contenders that are like per vocation, or is it? Or across the entire fleet or no, it's just going to be. As many different vocational vehicles there are, there are probably different numbers of alternative fuel systems. I don't know if that's something you think about or not.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, I think it's going to be leading contenders by vocation, just because of how you're going to have the infrastructure to deal with what it is, and you know, certainly things are being tried, so that helps. That certainly isn't, like I said, isn't something that I think of day to day, but it is concerning that. There's as much you know with the emissions and so we have 2027 is actually the 2027 truck build has a requirement for lower NOx emissions on it to get to the point where we're zero emissions from a truck. However, you might be able to attain that standard.

Behzad Rassuli:

Is this a tailwind for the independent aftermarket to kind of like reconfigure a lot of those trucks?

Tina Hubbard:

Yes, yeah, could be.

Behzad Rassuli:

Could be yeah, and then maybe a little bit further out. I know that passenger cars are working on this a ton and every six months it's like, oh, we think we're really really close to autonomous, but it's probably actually really far away, if ever a solvable problem to have full autonomy In the trucking sector. Platooning is a concept where you have kind of like a lead truck and the other ones just follow autonomously behind it and follow the commands of the lead truck. How real are these things in the trucking space and are they right around the corner, closer than passenger car?

Tina Hubbard:

So personal opinion, you know nothing scientific to it. Personal opinion you know nothing scientific to it. But if you were on the highway with an autonomous truck, how would you feel if you were driving on the same highway with an autonomous truck?

Behzad Rassuli:

Feel safe Back up or I'd go forward. One of the two.

Tina Hubbard:

Get out of the way, yeah, piece of what kind of pulls that back If you're in the right place. So if you're hauling, if you're in a major metropolitan area, I don't know that autonomous trucking is something that's going to be useful and beneficial for that environment, but certainly when you're hauling. So how much does a truck driver want to haul through the flatlands across the country to deliver a load? And the autonomous trucks that have proven successful have a person in them right so that if something had to be overridden with the steer or a break of the system, they could do that. So truly, very few trusts have been done with truly autonomous, no human intervention in the vehicle. I think there are certain, especially off-highway applications where autonomous vehicles could be a huge benefit. Mining is one of them.

Behzad Rassuli:

Oh yeah, Agriculture. Mining is one of them. Oh yeah, Agriculture.

Tina Hubbard:

Yeah, Platooning, I think, is certainly something that we may see in the future. I don't know that it's in the near future and it's all a matter of how far can you go platooning three, four, five trucks in a train? If you will, from point A to point B, how far are you going to get before that train has to disembark and different vehicles have to exit off of where they're going? And where is that helpful versus where there's already railroads in that situation? Because it's almost mirroring that type of environment yeah, no, that's.

Behzad Rassuli:

I like that framing.

Behzad Rassuli:

It seems like there's going to be um evolution of the technology, of both technologies, like autonomous platooning, uh, and kind of somewhere where there are like advanced driver assistance things and they're just going to be in different parts of the country for different purposes.

Behzad Rassuli:

When you were talking about how close do you want to drive next to an autonomous truck, I don't know why, I just flashed to this movie I watched recently.

Behzad Rassuli:

It's one of the X-Men movies, logan, this weird scene where you know the whole movie, they're in cities and different parts of you know the country and it's like all kind of like normal vehicles. But then there's this one scene where they're driving through the countryside and there are just these they call them like these auto trucks and I think it's like corn, they're in between cornfields and they're just flying. They're flying up and down the highway with no regard to people, and so I don't know why it's a weird scene in the movie and he makes it a point to call out these like the damn auto chucks, you know, and like clearly there was an application for that moment and probably not great for passenger cars to be anywhere near those things and not applicable anywhere else. So with that wonderful aside, tina, it's been great to talk to you. I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you so much for sitting down with me and thanks so much for sharing your story.

Tina Hubbard:

Thanks, Bizan.

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Behzad Rassuli

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