Auto Care ON AIR

Finding Calm in Crisis

• Auto Care Association • Season 1 • Episode 43

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Fighter pilot Colonel Kim "KC" Campbell takes us into the cockpit of leadership under extreme pressure, sharing the heart-stopping moment her A-10 Warthog was struck by a surface-to-air missile over Baghdad. What happened next reveals powerful lessons about preparation, decision-making, and maintaining clarity when everything is on fire—literally.

Campbell's military nickname "Killer Chick" might suggest a hardened warrior, but her most profound insights come from embracing vulnerability. "If you told me I would use the word 'vulnerable' as a young fighter pilot, I would have laughed," she admits, detailing her evolution from projecting unwavering confidence to recognizing that acknowledging fear creates stronger teams. This transformation occurred at a surprising moment: when her three-year-old son interrupted a formal military ceremony, teaching her that being human connects us more deeply than projecting perfection.

The conversation draws fascinating parallels between combat decisions and workplace challenges. When podcast host Jacki Lutz shares her panic over missing equipment before a major event, Campbell highlights how both situations require the same approach: compartmentalizing immediate emotions, focusing on the next actionable step, and conducting honest debriefs afterward. Dean Martin of Fleet Equipment adds valuable perspective on translating these principles to media leadership, where tight deadlines and unexpected disruptions mirror combat's unpredictability in surprising ways.

What distinguishes truly exceptional leaders? According to Campbell, it's their ability to remain calm during chaos—like her flight instructor who simply said "wiggle your fingers and toes" when he sensed her tension during mid-air refueling. This single instruction changed everything, demonstrating how a leader's composed response ripples through an entire team. Whether facing missiles over Baghdad or missing podcast equipment, the message resonates clearly: do the next right thing, trust your training, and remember that our most challenging moments often become our most valuable teachers.

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Jacki Lutz:

I don't know if you get this all the time or if it's frustrating for fighter pilots to hear, but Top Gun is like my go-to movie, like on airplanes.

Kim Campbell:

It's so good. I mean, it's super entertaining.

Jacki Lutz:

I love it. It's not like totally accurate but it's good.

Kim Campbell:

What parts aren't accurate? I mean, some of the flying scenes are a little bit inaccurate and some of the things that happen but it's entertaining.

Jacki Lutz:

It's a great movie, like I love it. It's a fantastic movie. I love it because I've seen it a thousand times, so I can have it on and be working and not have to pay too close attention. Yeah, but I also it's one of the few that I love the sequel, the Maverick.

Kim Campbell:

I know, I almost think the sequel's better which is rare.

Dean Martin:

Like to have a sequel be better. You just did such a good job.

Kim Campbell:

And there's a female like total badass. So yeah, totally.

Jacki Lutz:

Okay, let's get this started. Welcome to Auto Care On Air, a candid podcast for a curious industry. I'm Jackie Lutz, content Director at the Auto Care Association, and this is Carpool Conversations, where we collaborate on today's most relevant power skills. We're all headed in the same direction, so let's get there together. Hi everybody, welcome to Carpool Conversations. We're at HDAW right now, so we're just going to call it the truck cab. We're all riding together in a truck cab today. I have two very special guests with me today Dean Martin, group publisher of Fleet Equipment over at Babcox Media.

Dean Martin:

Great to be here.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, it's awesome to have you here at the show. And then I have our keynote speaker at the HDAW show, kim Campbell, also called Casey it stands for Killer Chick. She's a retired colonel for the US Army Air Force here with us today. She just got off stage and we got to hear her amazing keynote speech, standing ovation at the end of it and, if you don't mind, just quickly kind of introducing yourself, telling your story a little bit, just to give our listeners some kind of context behind who we're speaking with today Absolutely Well, thanks for having me.

Kim Campbell:

I spent 24 years in the Air Force. Most of that was as a fighter pilot. I flew the mighty A-10 Warthog Primary mission is to support our troops on the ground, but I also spent plenty of time as a senior leader in the military as well. Got to lead some amazing teams large teams and small teams and so you know, I just I love being able to share the story and share the lessons we talked a little bit earlier about. It's not all successes, there's some failures, but I think that's where we learn a lot, and so, yeah, that's what I'm here today to do is just provide a little bit of a unique perspective. You know a different view on things, because I think you learn on the journey, I think you learn through the story, through the experiences, and so I really, I really enjoy that. So I'm excited to be on the show with you today.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, and you know what I was actually talking to my colleague while we were listening to you and I'm going to get to a story that happened to me yesterday and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so applicable. And he kind of laughed because he's like your story is like your life was in danger. You know, it was like such, a such a you know, life altering moment and I'm comparing it to something that just seems so small and insignificant. But that's really what we're going to try to do today is make your story applicable to the professionals in our industry. So obviously it's not a life or death situation, but so much of what you said is so applicable. Yeah, I mean.

Kim Campbell:

I will tell you that never in my life, at any point, did I ever imagine flying an airplane over downtown Baghdad Okay, maybe that part I did, but like getting hit with a surface to air missile, being in this terrifying moment, the most terrifying moment I've ever been in.

Kim Campbell:

You know, that's not something I ever could have imagined. Those are things that happen to other people, right, those are things that don't happen to you, and I think that's the connection is that we all face these moments in our life, and they don't have to be life or death, they don't have to be life changing. But we face these difficult moments where everything that we've done in the past, all the work we've put in, kind of lead up to this one moment, like, are we going to be able to do what we're trained to do? And I think that's to me, that's the lesson that I take with me. I mean, that was one moment in my life, but it was life changing because it taught me so much about myself and what I was capable of doing in really hard times of doing in really hard times.

Kim Campbell:

Let's quickly talk about that moment.

Jacki Lutz:

So our listeners who weren't here understand exactly what you're talking about right now. So tell us about that moment, what you were doing, what happened and then why it's so extraordinary.

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, this was back April 7, 2003, and our primary mission was to support the troops on the ground and we would fly up to Baghdad. We would air refuel so we'd be full of gas before we support the troops on the ground. And that day, unfortunately, the weather wasn't great, so we kind of were wondering if we were going to be able to do anything. My flight lead like hindsight, he said I hope you have your lucky rabbit's foot with you today, because he just felt like we weren't going to be able to do anything. And then we got the call. We got the call from our ground troops they're taking fire, need immediate assistance, and it's like it's go time. Like this is. You know, this is the moment that you're all that training. You got to be ready to go and we listened to the ground controller. He kind of gave us the situation update and he told us that you know, the troops were taking fire. They wanted us in there as quickly as we could, and so we got down below the weather, much lower than we normally were, and I just remember like I could see this firefight it was. So I mean it was very surreal, because usually we're a lot higher, but when we got down below the weather, I mean I could see everything. I could see tracers and smoke. And you know, it's that moment of like this. Is it Like this? Is this is what we do? And then it's like OK, now focus because you have a job to do.

Kim Campbell:

And we, we rolled in for pretty quickly. We did some gun passes and rocket passes and on my last pass, you know, we said hey, last pass, probably time to climb up, get some altitude and airspeed back and pulling off target. And all of a sudden I just hear this huge explosion at the back of the airplane. No doubt in my mind I know exactly what's happened. My airplane's been hit. I don't know what hit it, I don't know where, but I know I've been hit because it totally throws me over. I can hear it, I can obviously see this giant fireball.

Kim Campbell:

And now the airplane is just aiming towards the ground and my natural reaction is to just pull back on the stick, the control stick. And I do that because the jet is aiming at the ground and it's grounds getting closer. And as I pull back I'm like I'm not feeling anything. There's no resistance and the airplane is not doing anything.

Kim Campbell:

And it's kind of that moment of like this is not what I planned, this is not going well, and but then at that point, you know it, it felt like time slowed down, like I just I felt very clear on what I needed to do. There weren't many options. It was either eject, which not something I wanted to do, but we have a backup emergency system, and so it was just I fell back on my training 100%, just able to flip the switch and thankfully it worked. I mean, it worked exactly as advertised and was able to start climbing up and away from Baghdad. And that was kind of the first moment of like okay, I can probably survive this now, like take a deep breath and now I have to figure out what the hell I'm going to do next. Terrifying, quite honestly, like nothing I ever thought that I would ever have to deal with in my life.

Dean Martin:

How long a timeframe is that that you realize, uh oh to where instincts take over and you pull the switch to go to your seconds.

Kim Campbell:

It's seconds. I mean, it's such a natural reaction. The only thing that I have that actually tells me any sort of timing is that I listen to the audio after the fact and I can hear the moment that I key the radio and I say a totally inappropriate comment Well, maybe it was appropriate for them, but like we're not supposed to cuss on the radio, but I did because that was the only thing that came to mind but telling my flight lead that I was hit. And then the moment that I say I'm in the backup system and it's really it's 20 seconds, so something short of that. You're talking a matter of you know, maybe five seconds of like hit analysis, make a decision. But I tell you I felt very like, almost calm, Like I just I knew exactly what I needed to do.

Jacki Lutz:

That's amazing, cause it's not like it's something you said. I'm trying to remember the exact words you said, but you said something like repetition. But like you can't, you can't, there's not. It's not like you can recreate a ton of different emergency situations. No, like, the more you're in them, the more it feels natural.

Kim Campbell:

But you can't really practice I mean it'd be ideal if you could practice the ideal situation.

Kim Campbell:

You know it's like everything in life, as long as you put in the work and you're in. You know, if we practice emergencies all the time, like that was part of our training, we actually did practice this emergency. We in our simulators, will simulate getting hit. It doesn't feel anything like the real thing but you at least are. You've done the work for those emergencies and you kind of go into a natural flow. And for us it's maintain aircraft control, which I could not do, and it's analyze the situation, so I you know very quickly and then take the proper action and then land as soon as conditions permit. It was going to take me a while to do all of that, but you know it's just okay. Focus on what's most important first and I think that's the story in life.

Kim Campbell:

right, we have things that happen to us that feel overwhelming, like you know, that you don't think are going to happen. Hopefully, you've put in some work, you put in some preparation, but like in that moment, like shut the noise out and focus on the thing that is most important. For me it was flying the airplane, right, but I think sometimes we can feel so overwhelmed by all the noise and all the things we're hearing. But it's just a reminder, like take a deep breath and focus on the thing that's important.

Jacki Lutz:

And I immediately I really wanted to mention this story. So I was telling you guys, before we started recording, that I tend to be very open about mistakes I've made, especially on this podcast. I'm sure people think I'm a train wreck because I always bring up mistakes that I made, but I do really feel deeply that we do need to share our mistakes. We do need to talk about things that went wrong. I think sometimes I forget to talk about all of the things that have gone right, in my case at least. But yesterday I had this situation happen to me and every single thing that you said resonated with me. One made me realize I kind of went back to my own training in my head and the other thing I realized I didn't do was like looking back at all the things I actually did right without realizing it, probably from previous experience and being, you know, 18 years into my career at this point. So yesterday my podcast equipment was supposed to reach this venue last Thursday and I got a notification on Thursday saying it updated my shipping time, that it was going to arrive from like 9am to 5pm. But I was like, oh, that's okay, it'll be there. If it didn't get there Thursday, it could get there Friday. We still have Monday, like I just was not panicked. Well, sunday night I just was, you know, getting ready to come. I checked it and there was all these yellow triangles around my tracking information and I'm like, oh my goodness, it's not there. We, we're going to have this empty podcast booth. You know, we're really excited. We're only six or seven months into this podcast, so we're still really introducing it, especially to the heavy duty market. This is our first presence here and we were really excited to have this booth and have this presence and people learn more about this podcast. That could really help them in the industry. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we're going to have an empty booth. Oh my gosh.

Jacki Lutz:

So the first things that went through my head were like, what can I do and what can't I do? One thing I can do is contact my team, who is here at the event, let them know, like ask them, do you see it? Because clearly something's wrong with this tracking information that they can do to help. But it was nine at night, so not really she's like I didn't see it, but we'll check in the morning, that kind of stuff. So I'm like there's nothing I can do right now, right, but of course, at 3 am this is what I'm thinking about and I'm like, ok, so let's just pretend that it doesn't show up at the end. What do we need? We need equipment.

Jacki Lutz:

So I started, I made three best buy lists, because there's like all these limits, you can't buy three microphones, it's only one per customer, things like that. So I looked at all the best buys around the venue. I had three different carts full of what I need. So I'm like, okay, worst case, when I have to call Stacey, my manager, and tell her, hey, we have no podcast equipment at the venue, I can say, but don't worry, I have this. We're going to worst case scenario. I'm Ubering to three different Best Buys, I'm getting the podcast equipment we need and we're still going to record this podcast and at the end of the day, that's what needs to happen, right.

Jacki Lutz:

But I was so worried and anxious that whole day because I didn't want to do all that until I knew that this, whether or not this package was coming, and I finally get to the venue, I have this lump in my throat, my chest is tight, like I'm just so anxious about, you know, wanting to make a good first impression. My team really trusts me to own this podcast, even though I have very little experience with podcasts. Our association in general has very little, you know. So like if I can't make it work, there's no one I can lean on. And I was just had high pressure situation. Of course my team comes through, which I knew they would in the back of my head. But like I was talking to Jesse, I was talking to Mark, who really runs HDAW on our side, and he's he made some calls. I was able to talk to an actual person at FedEx and he goes it's on a truck, it'll be here in an hour.

Jacki Lutz:

And I immediately felt like all of this anxiety, like taking a deep breath for the first time in like 18 hours, right, but of course it didn't come in an hour, it was like three hours. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm still going to have to go to Best Buy. Like it's still not here. Eventually it came, but like that whole day, I was so anxious and stressed and what I think is so funny is the whole time I just felt like I'm failing at my job and I'm going to get fired. This is it Like let's say our goodbyes, we're done right.

Jacki Lutz:

I haven't told my manager yet because I didn't want to tell her there was a problem. If there wasn't a problem and she was on a flight, so I was like I'm not going to panic her while she's in the air, I'll let her like I'm going to wait and see where we're at at noon when she lands, and then I'll communicate this out. Of course she texts me, says is there stuff there? And I'm like, oh, this sucks. And I was like no, but you know, everything's fine If it doesn't come on time, which I'm told it will.

Jacki Lutz:

But if it doesn't, I have this plan. I have my cart filled, I'm going to be Ubering to every Best Buy and we're going to have podcast equipment. And she was calm and she said you know, I'm glad you had a plan and I didn't really listen to it at the time. Of course, everything was very blurry to me for the past 24 hours, but like listening to your speech today, I was like that was actually something that I think I did right is I had this plan B, that at the time I didn't look at that like no, literally it's fine. Like if it doesn't come, we have this plan B that will work.

Jacki Lutz:

It has to work, but in the moment of the chaos and everything, nothing, nothing else mattered to me.

Jacki Lutz:

I was hyper focused on the fact that I need, at the end of the day, I need to be able to do this podcast with you too. Like that's no-transcript. Why were you so anxious and worried? He's like worst case, I was going to drive you to every Best Buy and we were going to get the equipment. Like this was going to work out, but I was so trained in my own head to be leaning on myself for this podcast, because you know it's really been a lot of you know me, especially at the events and it goes back to another point that you had where, like, you have to be able to trust the people around you, you have to be willing to communicate when you need help and things like this, and that's something that you know I didn't. I kind of took for granted during this chaotic moment in my life, which, again, isn't it. My life was not on the line, but it was extremely stressful stressful for me and luckily, we can be here right now.

Kim Campbell:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I was freaking out a few days ago as well, because my books had not arrived because of some weather delays and, like you, I was coming up with, you know, contingency plans of if they didn't get here, what would I do. But, yeah, your heart's racing because, like you know, I just I made a commitment that my books would be here, and so you know, I think we all face those things in our life and, yes, it feels stressful, it feels overwhelming and it doesn't diminish, like whatever level it is. It's just. That's like, if we're feeling stressed or we're feeling overwhelmed about it, like, okay, what can we do?

Kim Campbell:

And it's focus on the things you can control. You don't have control of the delivery. You can call and ask questions, but that's something you don't have control over, and so it's a just a reminder of, like again taking the deep breath, relying on your team. But I love what you said, like I can, I can watch you here, like you're doing this debrief, which I love the term right To kind of okay, what did I do well? Which is sometimes we forget that we're really quick to point out all of our mistakes. I mean, we're hard on ourselves, but what did I do well, you know what was good about that. And then, okay, what did I? You know, what could I do differently the next time? And that's really it right, we're going to make mistakes, things are going to go wrong.

Dean Martin:

So how do we learn from it?

Kim Campbell:

You know, how do we? How do we acknowledge the mistake? Don't do it again. But what do we take from that and what do we do differently the next time? Sometimes and I'm so guilty of this I will beat myself up. You know I will over critique myself about a mistake that I made. It's really easy to do, but you know you got to let it go at some point and learn from it and move on, sometimes easier said than done.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, and you talk about cultivating a culture of this in your company and I love that. And when I think back to that situation just yesterday I'm fortunate to work in an environment like that I know my manager, stacy. She tends to have her ducks in a row, which makes me really want to have my ducks in a row, you know. But when she stayed calm I was like dreading seeing her.

Dean Martin:

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

I'm like literally looking at her face, but I was dreading seeing her because I'm like, oh, she's not gonna like that. Our ducks are not in a row today, you know. But she was calm.

Jacki Lutz:

And when she was calm during this and she knew that there was things that were in our control which is what I had already figured out and there were just the things that were not in our control that we're waiting on right now, and when she was calm, it helped me be calm Makes such a difference when you have a leader that when, like, everything's going wrong and it's chaos, like you know to be that leader, that can just be calm and just, you know, trust your team.

Kim Campbell:

You know it's hard, though, when you're in that position, because obviously you know you're responsible for things and you want it to go well. When I was flying as a young pilot, one of my instructors this was actually my first combat mission on the way from Kuwait to Afghanistan, and one of the things that we had to do multiple times in order to get there was to refuel in flight. A ton of pressure, because if you don't, if you can't do it right, you don't get gas and then you have to divert, and so I was very nervous about our first refueling, just very, you know, a lot of pressure, and I probably had this like death grip on the stick as I'm flying and I can see the tanker and I'm trying to, you know, trying to get to him and I've got to be stable so that they can refuel us. And my flight lead must have known, like he must have just sensed that, like maybe he heard it in my voice, but he just calmly said very calmly on the radio. He said, casey, wiggle your fingers and toes.

Kim Campbell:

And I was like, oh, okay, relax, you know. But it's that moment, it's just a reminder, you know, to let your team like, okay, let's, hey, let's just relax for a second, like what are we going to do about this? Let's focus. But if you just, in those moments of stress and fear and overwhelm, it's a reminder to us to take that deep breath, wiggle of fingers and toes, whatever works. But when the leader, when the boss, when the manager, when they can be calm, even when things are not going well, it just it helps everybody to see things more clearly. You know, it gives us. You know, if you're trying to assess something, somebody calm versus somebody yelling at you can make a huge difference. Oh, a hundred percent.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, yeah, dean, I have a feeling things like this happen probably a lot in your world, being in media.

Dean Martin:

Oh, for sure. I mean, you know we try to. Obviously everything is scripted out, everything is planned out and there's a hard schedule that you have to meet on everything and inevitably things go wrong. Somebody's story doesn't come in on time, or an interview you're doing it doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen and to be able to. Okay, like you said, take a breath, we're going to get through this, we'll get it all done, we'll go out on time and everything works. But you know, I've spent 30 years in this business and you have a lot of experiences over those times a lot of failures, a lot of things. Okay, I know I'm not doing that.

Dean Martin:

I've learned that, but these will work, We'll make it happen. And you know, you take that deep breath and you rely on the people that you have around you.

Jacki Lutz:

Do you?

Dean Martin:

think you've grown in this area, like if you look back to when you first started in media and then where you've ended up, are you calmer now or were you always this chill? It's chill, you know, probably wasn't always that way. I mean, you know you're scrambling to get ahead. You want to make a good impression on the people around you, you want to make sure that they've got confidence in you, and then you achieve a certain level and you're now a leader of a team. I always just try to keep in mind, just like you said, I didn't like people yelling at me let's not yell, let's just be calm, you know. So I mean, I get that a lot at work is you don't have any highs, you don't have any lows, and I'm you know it's football season, a lot of playoff games going on and you hear a lot.

Dean Martin:

The team takes the personality of the coach. If they're one of those hyper, you know the team's going to play that way. If they're kind of a chill coach and they're just like, you know, nothing's going to ruffle their feathers. You see that, feathers, you see that. And so that's kind of my idea is just demonstrate what I think the team needs to act like and be, and I think, you know, for the most part, it all works out.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, and I almost wonder, like you mentioned on stage that your story about your son, yeah, and that really resonated with me and Dean, I know you have just one.

Dean Martin:

You have one daughter or you have two daughters and a son.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, so yours are a little older than mine. Mine are three and four right now, but you talked about your three-year-old on stage, so I really really connected with that. Even when you mentioned his ugly Crocs, I was like, oh, that's something I'd be thinking about too, like I should have put better shoes on my child if he was going to come on stage with me, you know. But I think about the same kind of talks, only maybe in your personal life. And my life probably never feels more chaotic than when I'm home and somebody one of you just said you don't like it. Like I think, dean, you don't like it when you're getting yelled at right. And I think about my kids. Like well, if things feel chaotic, I'm not always calm.

Jacki Lutz:

Oh, I try to be right you almost got to think like how can you put this kind of stuff in perspective, even when you're working with a three year old or a four year old that just won't put on their shoes when you're late?

Kim Campbell:

you know, yeah, I so I told the story of my son, who is three, but he's now 16. And so I have a teenager and they do things that try to spin you up on purpose, I'm convinced, and it's so hard to be calm in those moments and I just I mean, and I'm not always calm, let me put it out that way. But I also know that he responds much better when I am calm and when I do kind of maintain that calm demeanor. It's almost worse for him, but it's just. It's so hard sometimes, like just to be in those moments and things are not going as planned and it's frustrating. But just taking that deep breath, a little bit of a reminder be calm, because your team is counting on you or your family People are counting on you to kind of set the example with that. It's just sometimes much easier said than done.

Dean Martin:

Well, some of the best lessons you learn for business are at home.

Jacki Lutz:

Oh, I agree completely.

Dean Martin:

I mean because there's the team that life and death depend on you. Yeah, they are all in. Yeah, and to be able to navigate some of those situations and I've had many of I handle it in the right or wrong way and then sometimes just have to go upstairs and knock on the door and hey, I'm sorry.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, you know yeah.

Dean Martin:

Emotions took over, you know, and I think that helps you know, I think you said today you got to own it and you got to own the good and you got to own the bad.

Kim Campbell:

Absolutely. Yeah, you know, even with those conversations, you know it's conversations at work that maybe didn't go well, or conversations at home, Like I'm always doing, a little like after action debrief with myself of like that did not go well. You know, I had a conversation with a coworker and it was like you know, I tried to prepare for it and do everything I can, but sometimes in the end, like, as much as you prepare and you think through it and you have a plan, things don't always go as planned.

Kim Campbell:

And so you, you know the conversation doesn't go well, you do own it and you do a little debrief, you do the little self-assessment Okay, All right, that didn't go well, why. You know what. And then you know okay, next time I have to do this. But also, what can I do now? To kind of just go back and happens with our kids all the time.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, yeah, the debrief is important. So where does where do you think compartmentalizing comes in to? When you look at your life in general, you have this chaos over here, but you have this chaos as well. You know how do you compartmentalize the moment? Right?

Kim Campbell:

no-transcript, it's like, okay, I've got to shut that out, I'm going to deal with it later.

Kim Campbell:

I mean, I think that's the important thing with compartmentalization you compartmentalize in the moment, but at some point you kind of got to open that back up and unpack that.

Kim Campbell:

But I think to really be in the moment to focus on what you're doing, you have to kind of compartmentalize and tuck it away for later. And so I you know I did that plenty of times as a pilot where you know I'm on a mission, I'm going to focus on what I'm doing, but I've got like some chaos going on in my personal life. And then, at the same time, when I come home and I think this is one thing that I wasn't very good at, but I tried really hard to get better at it over the years is, when I'm home, leaving work at work and really being in the moment're missing out, and it took me a while to learn that. I mean, I did miss out on things with my kids, and you know I just, you know you just try to do better. That's all you can do. You know you learn from those lessons, but really, like when you're home, you're home, you're really focused on your kids and your family and you try to leave the work at work.

Dean Martin:

Well, I mean, that's how you kind of recharge the batteries. Yeah, if I go home at night and I'm going through everything that happened, you know the next morning when I go back to the office, you know I'm already tapped out.

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, you're already working all night.

Dean Martin:

So you know I try to do the same things is that drive home about 25, 30 minutes I'll listen to a podcast I'm an old time rock and roll guy so I'll listen to music and then when I get home, works at the office. It'll be there tomorrow. You always kind of have your phone on in the background just in case, but I leave it in the kitchen. I don't carry it around with me like I do other times. But yeah, if you don't have that opportunity to say, ok, let's just relax, chill, enjoy the people around you, they're probably, if they hear this, they're all going to go, that's not the way you are.

Dean Martin:

Yeah, right, Dad, you know you're just saying that, but that's what you try to do.

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, yeah, doesn't mean we're always good at it.

Jacki Lutz:

It gets harder to where people work from home, like I know I don't. I don't feel like I have that stark difference between my work day and my in my home life, and it's just because I'm thinking about everything all the time. My brain works. You know, it's just, it's all, it's all. All my wheels are turning about every area of my life all the time. So, it's really hard to shut that off sometimes.

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, especially now with, you know, social media and phones and everything it just it makes it more complicated. It's taking that concerted effort. You know, even like even now I, you know, I really try to put the phone down and not always have it, and just especially if my kids are coming to talk to me, because now they don't always want to talk to me, it turns out what, yeah, and so when they're ready to engage, like phones down, I'm ready to engage with them.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, there's two other things I want to make sure we get to One of them is. You talk a lot about being scared and what to do when you're scared, so'd love to like hear your message there about doing things when you're scared like, oh, people don't really like to talk about fear.

Kim Campbell:

You might like reconsider that. And I thought you know what? That's exactly why I'm going to have it in the title, because we're afraid to talk about feeling scared. We're afraid to talk about, like when we faced out and worry and I realized, like, looking back on my career, there are so many times where I may be really excited about something, but I was also a little terrified at the same time. You know, I think about even just walking up the ramp to start basic training. Like I was excited, this is what I wanted to do, but I was also really nervous, I think about, like, when my husband left for a one year deployment. I was not excited about that, let's put that way, but I was also. I was really like nervous about, you know, could I do this as a essentially a single mom at home? You know, I there was definitely fear.

Kim Campbell:

Becoming a leader and taking, you know, being in charge of people. It's exciting because you get a promotion or a new job, but it's also a little terrifying because you you want to do well, you want to do well for your team, and so I I think there's always just this little, and if you don't want to call it fear, don't call fear. You call it doubt, you can call it worry, whatever you whatever's comfortable, but just acknowledging it like all right, yeah, I'm starting to feel that little bit of uncomfortable, you know, doubt, worry, fear creeping in. For me it was always a reminder that it was time to do something about it. Okay, if I'm feeling this way, why? And then for me that meant put in the work. That's like it was my signal when I was feeling that fear or worry creeping in.

Kim Campbell:

It was time to kind of put in the work. You know, study, visualize, rehearse, think through a scenario a little bit more. Have my contingency plans? You know, my backup to the backup, to the backup, you know. But it was time to do something about it. I think that's the most important thing. We can be really hard on ourselves when we start to feel that doubt, that worry, that fear. That's totally normal. But you need to do something about it. You know it's about being afraid and doing it anyway.

Jacki Lutz:

That's really where the story is and it kind of leads into the other point I want to make sure we talk about, which is vulnerability and being able to talk about that you were scared to tell that story and that you did it anyway and that you decided to jump off that ledge anyway and still try the new thing. And if we don't talk about how scary it was and how hard it was, then the next time someone listening to you is scared or something seems really hard, they don't have that inspirational story behind them to be like well, you know, Casey did something that was really hard and did it anyway and jumped off that cliff and learned a lesson. And you can have those stories as kind of like context behind why you should still do things that scare you. And I think, like you mentioned on stage, like people are afraid to talk about when you're scared, you got, you were shot in an airplane and when you were landed like to not admit that you were scared, which every single person on the planet would understand.

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, Well, it's just, you know one, I was one of the very few women that were flying fighters, and so I think there was part of that.

Kim Campbell:

But I think you know it's hard to admit, you know you don't have it together all the time and I didn't, I mean that's the truth is, I didn't admit it.

Kim Campbell:

Then I just, you know, as a mentor, as a leader, as a manager, how do you help the people that are, you know, coming up on their leadership journey or on their growth journey, their work journey, whatever it is, if you're not willing to be vulnerable and share some of your stories, your mistakes, your failures, your fears, like you know? How does that help them? Failures, your fears, like you know, how does that help them? And I think to me that's the important thing is, I realized on my journey and my career, there were so many people who are willing to share stories with me and most of the time, like they're sharing things that they did not do well and what they learned from it, and I learned so much from them. So to me it's a. I think we have a bit of a responsibility as we are leaders leaders or managers, or just more experienced in our role we have a responsibility to share with those the younger, the least experienced.

Jacki Lutz:

To share those, share theirs, I think, is also very admirable because it actually will probably make your managers trust you more when you talk about a situation that maybe something went wrong, it was your responsibility, you did something wrong along the way, but that you learned a lesson from it, and the fact that you're talking about it and saying that you learned the lesson would make me feel a lot better. Like okay, there's a really good chance this isn't going to happen again If you're willing to do that.

Kim Campbell:

That means you likely have a really good working environment right Because it's so hard, especially when you're young or new to an organization, to admit those mistakes. But that's what a great culture to admit mistakes, to point out problems before they become big problems. But that requires a leader and manager to set the example with that to share. Hey, we have an environment we're going to talk about the things that we don't do well all the time so that we can all learn from them and then we don't continue to repeat those mistakes.

Dean Martin:

Yeah, I mean, like you said, I love the debrief idea. You go through a project and you sit down after the fact and be able to say what worked, what didn't work, what do we want to do more of? What do we want to do less of?

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Dean Martin:

And it's we, it's not you or I. You know our team, we're all together and I think if you're comfortable enough to be vulnerable, it just makes the team that much stronger, Gives everybody much more confidence to I can do this. Yeah, I'm scared right now. I'm really nervous, but I'm not going to lose my job. I'm going to learn from it and you come out the other side better you come out the other side better.

Kim Campbell:

If you told me that I would use the word vulnerable as a young fighter pilot, I would have like laughed and I didn't right, like as a young pilot, I think it took me a long time to really one feel more comfortable and more confident. It certainly helps to go to combat, kind of prove yourself in combat. To now I feel like I'm in a position where, yeah, I'm, you know there are not many women fighter pilots around, but now I am more confident in my capabilities. I know I've put in the work and I'm willing to kind of stand in front of people and say this is where I failed, this is what I didn't do well, and yes, I was scared and it is okay.

Dean Martin:

But I mean, you're weak.

Kim Campbell:

No, it doesn't, but I couldn't have done that 20 years ago, you know, and I think I was nervous. I was nervous to admit that I didn't want to let people in and know them, let them know that I had doubts or weaknesses, right, I was trying to put on this tough fighter pilot exterior and, honestly, the story that I share about my three year old son coming up on stage in that very formal ceremony. There was something with that moment that really changed my mindset as a leader that it's okay to be human, right, it's okay to let people in, it's okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to share stories with others because you create connections like now, you have this trust with your team and it just I mean being on a team where there's trust and connection and really good relationships, it doesn't make such a big difference.

Kim Campbell:

You know like you really feel like you're part of a team. You're part of something that's more important than just you.

Jacki Lutz:

I definitely prefer working with humans. Yeah, it turns out that's what separates us from AI and animals. Yeah, it's an important piece. That's what separates us from AI and animals. Yeah, it's an important piece. So I usually like to just wrap up and kind of do a little round robin of you know what's the biggest takeaway for our audience. You know, if they were just to take one thing away from each of you, what do you hope that that is?

Dean Martin:

Well, I'll start. We talked earlier, you know, before we got started my youngest daughter, Becca. She is in marketing and she deals with, you know, trade schools and charter schools, all of marketing and more people reporting up to her. And she called and she's 27, got married three or four months ago. So her world is just flip-flopping. There's so much going on and she's just like. I don't know if I can do this. They're going to see right through me and I'm just like you know, take a breath.

Dean Martin:

You know they wouldn't have put you in this role if somebody didn't have confidence in you. You know, just relax, think it through, and exactly what you said is just focus on what's important. Do what they're asking you to do and do it the best you can do it, and the people are going to follow you. You have their backs, they're going to have. You know you have theirs, they have yours and you're going to be successful. Um, and then I'd been going through your book, you know, I don't know it's you know, a few months earlier and it was just like and then this came about, knowing that you were going to be at this, I'm like, oh, becca, you got to get this, I'll get you this book. And because it really speaks to everything that you know a young person needs to understand and know, hey, this is a process and you're going to stub your toe and you're going to fall down. Get back up. Get back up, you know, and just keep going.

Jacki Lutz:

So that's probably my big takeaway.

Dean Martin:

Yeah.

Kim Campbell:

That's a great one. Yeah, that brings up so many, just so many thoughts. I think you know, I the reality is in our lives we have these perfect plans or perfect ideas of how we want things to turn out. You know we have these goals for ourselves and I think the reality is it doesn't always go as planned. You know you're going to face challenges in your life, you're going to face things that make you feel stressed. You're going to face fears and doubt and question everything, and it really is what you do with those moments. It is about like all right, I got knocked down, but I'm going to get back up again, I'm going to dust myself off, I'm back in the fight, like I may face rejection, I may face failure, but we can do hard things.

Kim Campbell:

I do believe that we have to put in the work. I mean, I think anytime you're starting something new, anytime you have a new role or a new position, you do need to put in the work. I'm a big believer it doesn't just happen because you want it to and you have these lofty goals and dreams, but you got to put in the work, you got to prepare, you got to practice for these things, you got to plan for the contingencies when things don't go well. You got to put in the work and that's how we earn it, but also being a little bit, maybe kinder to ourselves, giving ourselves some grace when things don't go as planned. You know, learn from it, learn the lesson, move on. It's just the reality that things aren't always going to go the way that we want it to. I mean, it's life, but it is all about what you do in those moments. To me, that's all about what matters the most.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, it's like kind of goes along with my takeaway too, is the thing, the phrase that always goes through my head when I'm going through moments like I was talking about yesterday, when it's like all of a sudden I go from zero overwhelm to like completely overwhelmed, like you think that you have crossed every T and dotted every I, and then this one thing goes wrong and the entire thing is on fire and it's like you just weren't expecting it.

Jacki Lutz:

And the first thing that always goes through my head is just the phrase do the next right thing. So, instead of thinking too far ahead and being like how am I going to get from having no equipment to having equipment in the next like 10 hours? Like how am I going to do that at 3 am in the morning when everybody else is asleep and nobody can help me and I'm not here, what have you think about? It's like okay, what's the next right thing? So let's just assume that this doesn't show up. What can I do? What is the next right thing? And if you just think that far ahead in that one next step and maybe not think about the 10 steps that you need to do, it just kind of helps that calm you know, like one thing at a time, one thing at a time, one step at a time.

Jacki Lutz:

You can't fix 10 things at once. It's really hard to jump 10 steps right, but you can take the next one and eventually you'll get to that 10th step. You just take one at a time.

Kim Campbell:

The other thing that you said that just reminded me of, like the reality is that these moments, this moment, that you had more than a moment this you know, but the chaos, right right, that things did not go as you planned those are the moments when we learn the most right, I bet looking back at that, maybe not today, but maybe in a week or so Once everything settles out right.

Kim Campbell:

We kind of look back and we go, okay, that sucked, that was pretty miserable. I was really stressed in that moment. But I don't know, I think to me, I look back at those moments, the hardest times in my life, the things that I really didn't want to happen. Those are the moments where I really learned the most about myself and if we take the time to just reflect on them a little bit, we learn a lot of lessons. And then, right, that next step of being able to share that with other people, the fact that you shared that chaotic, crazy moment here with everybody, that's listening like people can learn from that, and I think that's just that's what it's about. We share our stories with others so they can learn, even if they're not our favorite stories to tell. I think it's. I think it's.

Kim Campbell:

I don't know I look at it as almost a responsibility you know, share with others. Share with other people the good, the bad, because we learn a lot from the bad.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, as hard as it is in the moment. Yeah, and it's really the hope of this podcast. It's like let's bring the whole industry up right. Let's talk about these things so everybody can experience, you know, all of this together and we all can level up together. That's really kind of the hope of these conversations, so I love it. Thank you so much, both of you. This was such a fun conversation.

Kim Campbell:

I know we could keep going, I know.

Jacki Lutz:

It's always hard to end these things because it's just so much fun and I'm learning so much. But really thank you both for taking the time and just you know, as we wrap up, how can people follow you or get to know you better or connect with you?

Kim Campbell:

Yeah, absolutely. Probably the easiest is my website, which has links to all the social media, which is kim-kc-campbellcom, and I always I say this. Not a lot of people take me up on it, but I'm sure there are questions that people were listening in and they said I wish they would have covered that or wish you would have talked about this. So I'm serious when I say there's links to my email, there's links to social media, but reach out, I really mean it. So many people helped me on my journey, so many people were willing to answer questions and talk through things, and so I love it when people reach out and follow up.

Jacki Lutz:

Okay, thank you.

Kim Campbell:

I don't have a website.

Dean Martin:

I was just going to say, dean, what about you? Sorry, LinkedIn. Look me in a phone book Yellow pages, yellow pages.

Jacki Lutz:

They're going to end up with the singers Dean Martin's.

Dean Martin:

Yeah, if you Google me, I'm way down the list.

Jacki Lutz:

Don't Google Dean Martin.

Dean Martin:

It's not the right one, no Different person Appreciate you, thank you.

Jacki Lutz:

Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care On Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode, and don't forget to leave us a rating and review. It helps others discover our show. Auto Care On Air is proud to be a production of the Auto Care Association, dedicated to advancing the auto care industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives, visit autocareorg.

People on this episode

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Behzad Rassuli

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Jacki Lutz

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Michael Chung

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Stacey Miller

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